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Clarification Please...

From: Dan Pattangi (
Date: Fri Aug 31 2001 - 22:15:17 PDT

Please forgive me but there are a few very incorrect points that need to
be corrected, if not, repetetions of these incorrect-points without proper
corrections, will be damaging to our sampradaya.

:-> 3. When one undergoes upanaynam, he becomes a brahimn; Thereafter he
can learn Vedas and saasthrAs;

Undergoing Upanayana just makes one Born again (So they get qualified to
learn Vedas etc.), It does NOT make one a Brahmin.
All the three Varnas get Upanayana (NOT JUST THE BHAHMNA)
(Historical Evidence: Lord Rama (Ikshvaku - Kshatri), Lord Krishna ,
Pandavas were all born in Non-brahmin kulas, but had upanayana.
As per Shastras upanayana DOES not make one a Brahmin.

:-> Now- anyone from any varNa, can become a Srivaishnavan; (irresepctive
of caste, creed, colour or sex. 

This is very correct, e.g: Nammazhwar and most of the Azhwars were
born in Non-Brahmin families. But are the highest of SriVaishnavas.

In fact Nammazhwar's Thiruvaimozhi is the Sama Veda Saram 
(also chandogya samam) 
Thiruvaimozhi contains Tatvathrayam, Rahasyathrayam, Artha Panchakam,
Karma, Gyana, Bhakti, Prapatti, Nayika Bhavam, ThoothuVidukai,
establishes Sriman Narayana Para tatvam, Piratti Purusha kara bhootai,
bhagavatha prabhavam, Means to attain the lord through bhagavathas,
Acharya Abhimanam, the list can keep going on like this.

For such a great SriVaishnava do you ask if he is a Brahmin,
No.. He is a SriVaishnava and that is it, 
Once you accept one as a SriVaihsnava no more questions asked.

:-> But one has to follow their respective varNAsrama dharmA 

Once you accept one as SriVaishnava there is no need to
worry about what varna he/she belongs to
(Now being a SriVaishanva is not very easy, that can be a seperate thread)
adiyen understands from Srimad RahasyatryaSaram, VenkataNathar says
VarnaAshrama has to be followed till er are on this BhuLokam.
(Please see Pillai Lokacharyan incident below)

:-> not upanayanam because that is not called for in his birth and in >his
varNA per saasthrAs).

Again all three varnas are required to get Upanayana and perform 
Sandhya. (e.g: Vali, Vibheshana, etc. in history have performed
Sandhya without fail (This qualifies them to perform their duty)

:-> BUT.. we should not say this and marry his daughter.. this is where

I think this is where some touchy feelings might get touched, but there
are enough examples (including Perumal himself breaking this rule)(We
might say ohhh! he is Perumal he can break the rules.)

Here is a story to illustrate this:
Swami Vadakku Thiruvedhi Pillai's wife requested from his Acharyan
Swami Nampillai for letting Vadakku Thiruvedhi Pillai off for some time so
they can bear a child with Acharya's blessings for the propogation of the
Vaishnavism (Vaishnava Kula Dhanam to be passed down to the next
So Swami Pillai Lokacharyan was born as the first child with Acharyan's
blessings. Namperumal wanted to bless Vadakku Thiruvedhi Pillai with a son
as well, hence was born Azhgiya Manaval Perumal Nayanar (Azhgiya Manavalan
is Lord Ranganatha).
One of his main works, Acharya Hridayam (Here Nammazhwar is the Acharyan):
This is a Sutra Grantham (Sutra Granthas have few words
with very deep and complete meanings)
Pillai Lokacharyan in Sri Vachana booshanam says "
Do not ever ask which caste Nammazhwar was born in,
Do not ask if Thiruppanazhwar is from Panar Kulam, 
Beacause Lord says, if there is anyone who is my Devotee,
treat him like you treat me (the Lord) because this devotee is 
Poojya. (Satha Poojyaha yahta Gyaham)
Even if he is from the lowest of low class, if he is my devotee
you should see me in him.

Pillai Lokacharyan says"
Once the Lord himself says treat my devotee like you treat me,
where comes the question of asking any bhagawatha for his Caste"

Some Vedic Scholars those days took great objection to this, and
took this up with Lord Ranganatha.
(PS: Lord Krishna says in Bhagawad Gita:
Some Vedic Scholars will hold on to somethings I say, not realising the
meaning (Veda Vadarathaha Pratha Nanyadhithiti Vadinaha)
They will just do Vadam (Arguements) not understanding why I said this in
Vedas. Lord Krishna tells Arjuna do not get tricked by these
so called Vedic scholars, please try to understand why i have given the

So these Vedic Scholars took this upto Lord Ranganatha with the point that
his teachings are against the Vedic teachings. So he needs to be banished
from this Town. (Their point was, if he speaks against the Vedas he is no
Brahmin, so remove him from this town)

So Lord asked for Pillia Lokacharyan Swami (He has to be impartial)
so the Archaka was told to bring Swami Pillai Lokacharyan.
At this time Pillai Lokacharyan was not there at home, and his younger
brother (Born as a blessing from the Lord himself)
came to the Lord as a representative of his brother (If the lord calls for
you someone has to come, so the brother came on his behalf)

Porappadu (Procession) was about to start for the Lord when Nayanar 
got back to the temple, Lord said I do not have much time
here is the question ..... what do you have to say in defense.
Question: Without looking at the Caste differnces should the devotee be
treated as the Uyarndhavan (The Highest) in all aspects for all purposes.

Ans: I will come along with you during the procession and keep explaing
the position per Sri Vachana booshanam if the Lord so pleases

Lord agrees to this, and while going around in 4 Vidhis (during porappadu)
he explains the 4 prakaranam in Acharya Hridhayam (He explains Nammazhwar
Viabhavam & Thiruvaimozhi Vaibhavam to the Lord) by doing so he defends
the position of his brother in Sri Vachana Booshanam.

So he says if we ever look for a caste or class once the person is
identified as a bhaktan, devotee, srivaishnavan this will be very against
your ThiruVullam.  (Nayanar asks: Will you ask us to look for caste of a
devotee, how would you want us to deal with this after hearing all this,
would you accept if we treat a devotee any different because of his

This is when Lord Ranganatha says, yes Pillai Lokacharyan's Stance
is right " A devotee is a devotee, treat him like you would treat me,
the question of caste does not arise"
Sri Nayanar's position is right, there is no need to look at the person's
birth caste once he is my devotee he is my Bhaktan, not to be bound by

I could go on about Acharya Hridhayam and Sri Vachana Booshanam
but I guess the point is made about Caste & Class not to be applied
for SriVaishnavas. (Because the LORD himself said so, and would be hurt if
we treat his devotee any different)

Munnor Mozhindha Murai Thappamal Kettu
Pinnorndhu TamMadanai Pesadhe
Than Nenjil Thoninadhe solli, Idhu Suddha Upadasa
VaraVarathaenbhar, Moorkharavar.
When we say something, it should be backed with the work of some periyavas
(now who are periyavas.... Another thread eh!...)

azhwa:r emberuma:na:r jeeya:r thiruvadigale: saranam

adiye:n ra:ma:nuja: da:san
Mukundan Vankipuram Pattangi

           - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH -
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