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FW: Re : Our Original Position

From: Krishna Kalale (kkalale1_at_san.rr.com)
Date: Fri Oct 29 1999 - 16:02:07 PDT

-----Original Message-----
From:	Krishna Kalale [SMTP:kkalale1@san.rr.com]
Sent:	Wednesday, September 29, 1999 6:14 PM
To:	'hrid@ivs.edu'
Subject:	Re : Our Original Position

Dear Sri Hridayananda Goswami,

Let me introduce me as a humble vaishnava who is very interested and had 
the blessing to go through some classical philosophical and sanskrit 
education in India for about 12 years and after that a good contemplation 
period of about 19 more years here in the US which of course includes about 
10 trips to India during which I did continue my education back under my 
gurus.

 This letter is in regards to the book "our original position".  We had a 
brief conversation on the email about this earlier.  I would like to resume 
the conversation, since I finished reading the book.

Here are my observations :

Let me state at the very outset the conclusions arrived in the book "our 
original position" is not in agreement with Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana's 
views.  The reason for this conclusion is as follows :

Decisions regarding philosophical issues are best addressed in the Vedanta 
sutras since, Srila Vyasa has taken a clear well considered stance based on 
vedas and puranas in this work.

In the sutra IV -4-22  from page 770 of Vedanta sutras of sri Baladeva 
vidya bhusana translated to english by Rai Bahadur Srisha Chandra Vasu 
states :

There is no return to samsara for the mukta because of word of god;  yes 
there is no return, because of the word of God.

Incidentally this is the last sutra of the sutras.

The commentary on this :

he who has reached Lord by devotion to Him, never comes back to Samsara.

.........  there is a quote here form brihadaranyaka, chandogya , gita, 
bhagavata :

ye daragaraputraptan prananan viththam imam param
hitva mam saranam yatah katham tans tyaktum utsahe
dhoutatma purusha prishna pada mulam na munchati
mukta sarva pariklesah pantha sva sharanam yatha

those who leaving aside wives, sons, houses, lives and riches sought 
shelter in me, how can I allow myslef to desert them?
A clean souled man never leavs the feet of Sri Krishna, just as a traveller 
who has reached his home after undergoing all sorts of trouble, does not 
leave it
Thus one one hand the Lord has equal interest in holding on to his devotees 
and the they on the other hand have equally strong love to hold on to him.

To some up, the promises of Lord are ever true and hence they will not 
return to embodiment after reaching Him.

This conclusion is not a question for logical arguments, it is a matter 
learnt through the scriptures alone and must so be believed, whose sole 
authorities are scriptures.

WITH THIS,  I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT THERE IS NO RETURN FROM MOKSHA...AND 
THERE IS NO SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE FOR THE CONTRARY

This is doubly supported by an earlier sutra in the Brahman sutras : 
********************

Sutra II-1-35 states : refer to page 268  of Sri Baladeva Vidya Bhusana's 
Govinda Bhasya translation by Srisha Chandra Vasu
primafacie view :
objection to vedantic view of karma :

The theory of karma cannot explain the inequality and cruelty seen in this 
universe, because when the creation first started there was no distinction 
of souls and consequently of karmas  -  this is the objection

Conclusion  of sutras :

This objection is not valid because " there is no beginning of creation"

Commentary :

An objector may say that your theory of karma only pushes the difficulty 
one step back.  no doubt it explains to some extene the inequalities and 
sufferings of jivas in their present live.  They may be the results of acts 
done in the past life.  but since in the beginning of creation,  there were 
no jivas, nor were their acts, they must have been created with 
inequalities, in order to act differently.  If they had been created all 
equal, there is no reason to hold that their acts would have been 
different.  The sriti also says that sat onlyl existed without a second - 
ch UP.  This shows that when the creation started that there was no karmas 
or jivas, distinquishable from brahman.  TO this objection, raised:

the answer from the vedantic siddhanta or conclusion is :

jivas and karmas are beginningless, just like Brahman.  Thus there is no 
fault in the argument.  In pralaya the karmas are not destroyed.  The next 
kalpa is conditioned by those karmas.

if you state that karma-begginingless theory is tainted,  with the fault of 
regresses in infinitum, we say that it is not so because we find authority 
for it in reason also.  The explanation is given in the book..  I will not 
go into details to write down the whole thing.


IN CONCLUSION,

Please let me know what you feel regarding these statements of Srila 
Baladeva Vidya Bhusana.  I find it rather convincing because it is the same 
view of all other philosophers - Sri Ramanuja, Sri MAdhva etc.  ANy 
vedantic scholar who knows prasthana traya - ie. gita, upanisads, sutras 
will agree with this absolute beginningless theory.  I certainly know of no 
vedantic system which disagrees.

With regards to "fall of jaya vijaya",  it is usually explained by 
vedantins as :

If the sages cursed Jaya Vijaya, it is obvious that the place where they 
were = vaikunta is not the real vaikunta,  it is known as karyavaikunta a 
place in the material world,  this is an extension of the real vaikunta 
within this physical world, visible only to the highly evolved souls.  In 
real vaikunta there is no chance for curse and there can be no causes for 
some one to cause that curse since every one is beyond trigunas which cause 
mistakes or anger.

similarly all other ideas have to be resolved otherwise without going 
against the dictates of vedanta sutras which are very clear even according 
to the bhasyas of Sri Chaitanya Sampradaya.

thanks.

I would like to hear your comments.

Your humble servant,

Krishna Prasad