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Re: Few doubts

From: Lakshmi Narasimhan Venkatapathy (
Date: Tue Oct 16 2001 - 00:42:01 PDT

Shrimathe Raamanujaaya namaha:
Dear Badri,
I am just trying to put in words whatever I know and have heard from discourses. Please forgive me if they are wrong by any means and if it mislead any of you and I request our 'vaishnava periyors' to kindly validate and correct the same if it were wrong. Once again, since I am too young and I don't have much experience, I apologise if what I am going to tell is wrong based on what I have understood.

Time starts when the Brahman(Shri MahaVishnu) creates the materialistic universe(Shristi). Nabhya aaseeth anthariksham - the universe was created from the lotus that came up from the Bagavan's nabi(navel) and from then on the Brahma and the vedas and then the universe. The time starts ticking right from that point. Our vedas say that even Brahma has limited age(100 years or so) and when his time is over the entire universe including the Brahma is taken back by bagavan(pralaya kaalam). So, time starts from the shristi and ends up at pralayam.
During this time interval between the shristi and pralayam the 'first' means at the time of origin of this materialistic universe - the time of shristi - that was when Brahma learnt all the vedas from the bagavan - bagavan did Veda-upadesam to brahma's heart, the first of the vedas being Rig Veda and hence Rigveda has been known as the oldest.

Regarding karma, according to Shri Ramanujacharya, (according to Vishitadvaita) the jivas and this entire universe form the sharira of the bhagavan - the jivas when created - created means though they are eternal as the sharira of the brahman - they were let out to this materialistic world(first birth) at shristi and are given a little amount of independence to do what they want(the karma) and there by the brahman is free from partiality/brutality/free from prejudice. The brahman gives that freedom to the jiva and hence He is not being partial while the jivas using their independence do what they want(the karma). Hence though the jivas are eternal, their karmas aren't.
I also heard that Shri Vedanthachar differed in this by saying, the jivas have Nithyakarma that means their karmas are also eternal as they are.
This is purely my interpretation of whatever I've heard and in case of any mistakes kindly forgive me for the same and please do correct me on the same so that I won't carry these incorrect information(if any) with me.

Thanks a ton for reading through the above. Please feel free to correct me on all the mistakes or misinformations(if any) that I've furnished above.

Sarva aparaadhan kshmasava.

Adiyen Ramanuja daasan.
Lakshmi Nrusimhan
----- Original Message -----
From: badri narayanan
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 1:49 AM
Subject: Few doubts

Dear friends,

I have  having the following doubts

1) How are concepts like Time and Space handled in our Sampradayam.What is Time?.What was existing before Time?.Are there any works of Azhwars or Acharyas dealing with these issues.

2) We say Vedas are Apoursheyam, eternal and have no date of origin ,but at the same time we say Rig veda as the Oldest.When we say that it is oldest doesnt time come in to play here.Doesnt the term oldest indirectly means a time of origination.Does it mean Rig veda originated first and then came other vedas.

3)How can there be any karma associated with the first birth.I understand Perumal says in GITA that jiva is eternal and there was never a point in time where it was not existing.Can anybody explain?

Pardon my ignorance

Adiyaen Srinivasa Daasan


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