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RE: "harvest of faith"

From: Rajaram Venkataramani (
Date: Thu Nov 11 1999 - 09:50:33 PST

Dear Sir,

I appreciate the spiritual view point taken by Sri Sampath here. We should 
not be exclusive or fanatical. At the same time, I am opposed to 
conversions to Christianity for the follwoing reasons :

1. There is no Christian toaday including the Pope. Bible very clearly 
states "Thou shall not Kill". But the Christians under the guidance of the 
then Pope waged crusade and even today they are killing countless animals. 
You cannot violate the ten commandments and say that you are a Christian. 
(The Arch Bishop says that Pope is not talking about conversions which is 
so obvious. What about "Thou shall not lie") The last Christian died on the 

2. In the name of social service, the Christian institutions make huge sums 
of money out of our resources. The foreign help is only from the point of 
view of investment which attracts tax benefits in those countries and helps 
in money laundaring. Then institutions run on our direct money and tax 
money. Hindu organizations dont get Government aid because the Governments 
dont have the backbone to support our heritage.

3. They are making religion cheap. If Pope is violating "Thou shall not 
kill" and Arch bishop is telling blatant lies, what kind of spiritual 
training do you expect from their followers.

4. They say that they are bringing equality in society. Their idea is to 
make brahmanas (not caste brahmanas but sattvic people) into mlecchas. 
 Ramanujacharya made not mlecchas into not just brahmanas but vaishnavas. 
In the modern days, Prabhupada has made yavanas and mlecchas into 
vaishnavas all over the world. Ours is the most egalitarian society.

5. They are exploing economic  inequalities to spread religion. This is not 
economically profitable in the long run and is not religion anymore.

6. In The Hindu, a backboneless newspaper in my opinion, one David makes a 
point that Churches have made people of Kerala and North Easter countries 
literate. They are spreading education. Those who are not fools know how 
much the Church has tried to crush scientific temper of people like 
Galileo. Do you think we can rely on them to build our educational 
infrastructure ? They will only invest in education to the extent that they 
can make faith harvest.

7. If you talk to born again Christians , you will see how much they decry 
sanatana dharma and Krishna. Or go to Ashtalakshmi temple and you will see 
cows slaughtered.  It  is our right to protect our religion.

Yes, we have to preach more. But at the same time we should also counter 
preach. ISKCON's success is because it boldly counters popular paradigms 
through scientific means - technology, reason and logic.

Rajaram V.

-----Original Message-----
From:	sampath kumar []
Sent:	Tuesday, November 09, 1999 1:42 PM
Subject:	"harvest of faith"

Dear members,

Although this subject adiyen is now posting on is not
directly connected to SriVaishnavism still it has some
indirect relation. So adiyen is making the following
inquiry to all of you just to get your general and
valuable opinions:

This morning adiyen read the following headlines from
the "HIndu":

"With his very first public statement - an entry in
the Visitor's Book kept at Rajghat - on Saturday
morning, Pope John Paul II set the tone for what he
was to say during his short visit to India which
concluded this morning.

In the Visitor's Book, the 79-year-old pontiff had
penned down a line from Mahatma Gandhi:``A culture
cannot survive if it attempts to be exclusive.'' What
he went on to say in the three speeches he was to make
subsequently was primarily an elaboration of this
thought on the religious front.

While the Pope has primarily reiterated the
established position of the Church in all his
speeches, his statement, ``May the Third Christian
Millennium witness a great harvest of faith on this
vast and vital continent'', at the Papal High Mass on
Sunday, has become a matter of debate; particularly in
view of the concerns expressed by some saffron outfits

adiyen does not fully understand what the above
statements mean, especially what is meant by "harvest
of faith" that is hoped to be reaped in the continent.
Perhaps somebody can explain.

adiyen is learning that lots of religious leaders in
India are very upset and are afraid of "conversions"
and want to prevent it.

adiyen is wondering,"What is there to be afraid of
"conversions"? After all we also did "conversion" in
history, didn't we? Sri.RamanujAchArya converted lot
of people in 10-11th century by giving "samAshrayanam"
and "pancha-samskAram" to lot of people like tribals,
outcastes and under-privileged people. The Christians
are only trying to do the same thing in India now. So
what is wrong in it? If our religious organizations
want to do it, let them, like what Emberumanar did
1000 years ago, also do "conversions". Who is stopping
them?Why are they all talking as if Christians are
special kind of invaders? If our religious leaders
also want to "evangelise" outside India let them also
go out to other countries like the Pope. Who is
stopping them? Some of them are already doing it in
America and Gulf countries like ISKON etc.. Why are
they making such big fuss about Pope's visit and
"conversion"? adiyEn can't really understand.

1000 years ago RamanujachArya was successful in
"converting" millions to SriVaishnavism. Today we do
not have such a great one as Ramanuja to do that. The
Christians are doing better than our religious
leaders, evidently. But rather than crying foul at the
Christians, shouldn't we really fault our own
religious heads, leaders and organisations for not
being able to meet global challenge of other
religions? This shows that present day religious
leaders are not able to meet challenge in same
successful way that our dearest Ramanuja or Sankara
AchArya challenged and overcame Buddhism or Islam.

Sir, adiyen is feeling that, in the ultimate analysis,
the human soul too is a jungle and it is only the
fittest religious ideology that will survive in it.

Sir, adiyen is wanting to know what are you all
thinking about this matter?



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