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Re: Part 4 - Re: Azhwars Nitya suris or baddha jivatmas

From: Sampath Rengarajan (
Date: Wed Nov 19 1997 - 06:07:57 PST

The reference to "yAnAyth  thannaith  thAn pAdith thennA vennum en
ammAn" maynot be simply  reffered to *only* the life  histories of azwars
as sung by  themselves.  There are sevral  reasons  for not taking
this line of meaning of which few important are that, the pramAnam
of such pAsurams are not merely  azwAr's life histories  alone but
their love, bakthi and  saranAgathi to the lord.  Some portions of
their life history is presented as a premise for their devotion to
the  lord.  Secondly,  the word  "pAdi"  is  usually  referred  to
praise.  Azwars  didnot  intend to praise the events in their life
history in these  pAdaLs or  pAsurams.  But they  priased the life
histories  of the  very  Sri  Rama  and  Sri  Krishna  whose  life
histories were  presented  earlier as a somewhat  mistaken act and hence the
reason for the lord to understand and enter azwar's bodies.

How could the same lord  praise  after  supposedly  entering  these
azwars bodies the very same avathAram's life histories ?

ie..If  the lord must have  thought  that  these  avathArams  were
suprehuman and not that helpful in briging  baddhas to the path to
HIM how will he ever praise and refer and mention  the same in the  pAsurams
of azwars  that HE helped  delivering  by  entering  their  baddah
jivAtma bodies ? especially when it is argued that the purpose of
these pasurams are to show the path to baddha jivas from baddha
jivas mouth itself ?

May be the
argument is either incorrect or inadequately explained but
the Lord entering their baddha jivatam bodies
may still be correct.

The third  reason is that the 3 mudhal  azwars  life was  somewhat
contemporal (approximately same time around ? Experst please clarify)
 and said to have taken  place in thrEthA  yugam while
the Lord's  avathAram  was still in progress.  Such being the case
when was the time the evaluation on the  helplessness  due to superhuman
nature of these avathArams  done ?.  Can Such evaluation take place
after a completion of such avathArams or simulataneously ?
In Tamil, if one may say, "inga koncham kAla attavanai iddikkarathu".

The fourth  reason here is that the lines that were  presented  to
support  these lines by following  these words in 6000 padi are to
be taken into  consideration.  ie., there are 1 explanation  and 2
comparisons provided for these lines.

Explanation 1 from 6000 padi:  "ivvAzwArkaL  naavil irunthu inkavi
pAdum  parama  kavikaLAga  nangu  vanthu" ie., came out well (nagu
vanthu)  as the  sweet  words  that flow from the  tounge of these
azwars  that  are the  parama  kavi  ie..  as the  eternal  pAdals
"paravAsudEvan thAnE nanRAgap pAdi  prakAsipiththathu  aagaiyAlum"
ie., the Lord  paravAsudEvan Sang HIMSELF very well and glorified.
ie., "the Lord  paravAsudEvan Sang HIMSELF very well and glorified
these pAsurams as the eternal pAdals".

Comparison 1 from 6000 padi:  "annam athAy yirunthu angu aru maRai
nool  uraiththa" and "annamAya anRu angu arumaRai  payanthAn" enRu
sollukiRapadiyE   hamsa   avathAramAy   brahmAvukku    vEdhaththai
upadEsiththAp  pOlEyum, ie jeer compares azwars to the incarnation
of the Lord as "annam"  and their  deliverance  (pasurams)  to the
vedam that such incarnation of the Lord taught to brahma.

Comparison  2  from  6000  padi  :  "vyAsa  bagavAnai   AvEsiththu
vEdangaLai  vitharip  piththAp pOlEyum" ie the word bagwan must be
noted when Saint vyAsa was addressed by jeer.  He compares  azwars
to saint vyAsa and their pasurams directly to vedams.

Why vyAsa is considered as avathAram of the Lord ?

muNinAp yaham vyAsa : 10.37 Srimad bagwath Geetha
Among munis I am vyAsa:
                        Lord Sri Krishna

One  who  directs  his  mind  in  antharmuga   drusti  and  always
understand  the meyp poruL or inner most truth (here mey means the
truth and inner most) the word poruL in tamil also means por uL ie
the meaning  that it contains  "in it".  Among such pooraNa  nyAni
the  pradhAn  nyAni  is  vyAsa.  He is  known  as veda  vyAsa.  He
compiled  the vedas and he devised  the  suthrAs  for vedas.  Such
muni is referred as HIS own avathAram by Lord Krishna.

Thus one may understand from jeer's words that it is very clearly
implied by all these  comparisons )ie., comaprison of azwars to
annam and vyAsa while discussing their incarnation and their work to
vedam) that
the azwars were incarnations of the lord in one form or the other.
It is  upto  us  to  derive  our  own  conclusions  based  on  our
understanding from kalakshEbams from achaRyALs. The only person in
the network who has done some kalakshEbams is Sri Anbil and i look forward
to his comments.  What struck
me  from  pin  pazhagiya   jeer's  vyAkyAnam  that  is  considered
authentic  from  thennAchArya  sampradhAyam  was that jeer  didnot
mince words in  addressing  their birth as avathAram.  And he even
goes further identifies the state of "appurushAYE"  to the 4000 as
similar to  vedams.  And he goes even  further to state that these
are parama kavi.  ie., these 4000 pasurams are eternal which means
they  simply  appear in each and every  yugam as similar to vedams
due to the  "swayEchchai  avathAram" of the Lord.  Considering all
these  i seek  to  Lord to  bless  me in  serving  the  azwars  by
thoroughly studying their pasurams. I donot intend to discuss anymore
on these and want to spend my energy listening to kalakshEbams of
scholars and achAryALs and read poorvacharyas vyAkyAnams mainly and
write on pAsurams of azwars as advised by a learned scholar.
I once again seek forgiveness from all if my posts due to my
annyAnam has hurt anyone's sentiments.

pin pazhagiya jeer thiruvadikaLE saraNam
Sampath Rengarajan