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Part - 1 - Re: 3-Alwars by Sri Bhuvarahacharya

From: Sampath Rengarajan (
Date: Wed Nov 12 1997 - 14:00:32 PST

Dear Sri Anbil SwamigaL,

	I totally  agree  with your  views on this  post.  Without
going  into  details  from   pAsurams  i  find  some   interesting
observations  ( as I  perceive;  may be this is sound  to  someone
else.  if so please  advise)  in this post (as  presented  in this
post) itself that, what is said once is being  changed or differed
later  etc.  I am  presenting  *some* of them for your  views  and
please advise.

	May be that the line of argument is  incomplete (as i perceive)
as posted and that it is possible that the post didn't have t
he entire verbatim rendered by him.
Can Sri Krishna's friend get the complete posting (if any) so that
we can avoid  some  speculative  analysis  based on what is posted
only.  I am asking these questions in an attempt to learn and request
if some one can enlighten me on these and Sri AR's  questions.  My
sincere   apologies  if  I  have  hurt  anyone  by  raising  these
questions.  Our  gurukulam  from  where we learned  AzwAr  aruLich
cheyAL gives us a different  perspective and hence these questions
are  raised in an  attempt  to catch up with the  other  available
resources  on AzwArs.  I  apologize  to the  original  poster  Sri
BhuvarAchAryA  as  well  for  asking  these  questions  out  of my
annYAnams and seek his forgiveness.  I have discussed these in fact
with Sri Sudarsanam iyengar and I do respect his vyAkyAnams. I also
want to make it clear that i donot mean to disrespect Sri BuvarAhachAr
or his followers in this group by asking my primitive questions that
are merely due to my own annYAnam.

Sampath Rengarajan

>       THE LORD pondered over this and realised His
>       mistake.

Sri Rama and Sri Krishna  avathArams  are suggested here as Lord's
act that HE HIMSELF  felt as a mistake.  If the Lord is  suggested
in the  same  post  for one  whose  "Virtues  of THE  LORD  SRIMAN
NARAYANA"  is the life of azwars.  If HIS VIRTUES are the lives of
our holy AzwArs can the Lord (HE) make a mistake ?

Srimad Bagwad  Geetha has much more to offer as to why  avathArams
are taken in this material  world.  There is not one single reason
but many more.  Even though  these are divine  incarnations,  they
were born as humans and chose to live with humans of their  yugam.
Not many fellow  humans knew their  identity  then, that they were
shy and felt highly  impossible  to walk the path of the Lord only
on  realizing  that  they  are  super  humans.  The  analogy  here
suggests   that  because  Lord  was  some  super  human  in  these
avathArams  that people didn't care or felt  comfortable to follow
HIS  example  in  life.  The  super  natural  forms  of Lord  were
revealed to  selected  few and  majority of the fellow  humans who
lived then didn't even know that "this is avatharam" until the end
of the avatharam,  leave alone knwing that these  avathArams  were
super  human.  For a simple  analysis,  one can  study  the  power
equation of various  people on either side of the battle in dharma
yuddham.  Almost  7 or 8  people  have  the  "brahmAstram"  in the
battle of  kurukshEthra  while  only 4 of them knew as to how they
can either  deploy it and as well take it back.  Only ONE knew who
all knows  this and only one knew what will  happen  next.  It was
Lord Krishna.  but only a few knew that HE was the lord.

>       As He did not belong to their group,(as he was
>       not a bird of the same feather) the people cared very
>       little for His birth,preachings and practice.To catch
>       a wild beast another animal (a deer or goat) is required.

>       Understanding this principle or the natural law of this
>       land,THE LORD decided to bestow His benevolent grace on
>       some souls at the time of their birth.The result is the
>       birth of the AZHWARS.

AzhwAr's  avathAra  vishayam  was stated by suka munivar in srimad
bAgwatham  much  prior  to  their  "time  of  birth  and  time  of
appearance" as follows:

kalowkalu bavishyanthi nArAyaNa parAyaNa:
kvachithkvachin mahAbAgA drmidEshoocha poorisa:
thAmrabarnee nathi yathra krithamAlA payasvinee
kavEricha mahAbAgA pratheecha mahAnathee:

[1] Lord's nyAnam is always  complete that HE need not  understand
about  the  natural  laws of this land  that HE  himself  created,
supposedly  only  after Sri Rama and Sri  Krishna  avathAram.  The
notion that 'the Lord understood and decide to bestow only now' is
contradictory  to the very  observations  drawn from mudhal azwars
pAsuram in the later section of the same posting that says

>       The First Azhwar declred in his centum that THE LORD has
>       got Two Worlds (Sri Vaikuntha and this mortal world) for
>       His property.The Second Azhwar said that His name was
>       NARAYANA.The Third declared that He had as his consort

>       All the three declared in one voice: "He alone is the
>       Supreme Being and all others are subservient to Him.He
>       alone can grant Salvation.Taking Refuge unto Him is the
>       very best and the easiest means of reaching His Abode.
>       The Final Goal of man is to reach His Eternal Abode and
>       worship Him and serve Him."

"Can the Lord who has these  worlds as HIS  property,  "understand
anything new" to bestow some special knowledge only now ?"

[2] I am observing  that If the result is the birth of azwars from
the "act" of the lord in the previous sentence

ie., "THE LORD  decided  to bestow  His  benevolent  grace on some
       souls at the time of their birth."

Assuming  that this is what happened for a split second, this same
statement  negate  the  earlier  and the later  implications  that
azwars are mere baddha jivatmas.  ie., If they are chosen prior to
their birth are they ordinary  baddha  jivatmas ?  It is stated in
the same article that

"they are THE CHOSEN FEW OF THE LORD meant for
       uplifting the other distressed souls who are plunged in the
       ocean of misery and ignorance."

but the sentence prior to that sates that
"They are some of the suffering souls
       repeatedly getting born and dying in this world."

I find that these two statements contradict each other.
May be someone can advise if they are not.

>       AZHWAR means,those men who are immersed in the ocean of
>       the Virtues of THE LORD SRIMAN NARAYANA and consequently
>       those virtues alone sustained them in this world,and not

The Tamil word AzwAr - means many.  I can give atleast 2 or 3 more
meanings than given below.  One of the  principle  meaning is that
Aznthu -  anubaviththavar  - i.e.  when  kausalya  and yasodha and
others  during the  avathArams  enjoyed  the Lord as their son and
other realtions they perceived  accordingly,  AzwArs perceived the
Lord as the Supreme Lord and  EXPERIENCED  their relation with the
Lord through delivering these pAsurams.

Another  meaning is that they are called as AzwArs  because  their
nyAnam or koL ALavu or pakkuvam or capacity to understand the Lord
is the  deepest  EVER and  consequently  their  pAsurams  have the
"Azntha  poruL or  karuththu".  i.e.  their  pAsurams  convey  the
inner most thaththuvams in layers of meanings.

In Bagwad  Geetha  the Lord says none  knows ME in full other than
MYOWNSELF.  Combining  this and the  literal  meanings  for azwars
very well  state  that they are  amsams of the lord and as per the
reference  from Sri AR from Srimad  rahasya trya saram, azwars are
the  incarnations  of the Lord  Himself, "if they are to know" the
Lord in full.

>       He and the next two Azhwars were not given birth
>       to by women. (POYGAI= pond)

ANDAL and thirupANazwar are few others in this list.

if they are not born in the normal way and only appeared,  what is
being  referred  earlier  as the  time of birth  must be "time  of
appearance".  When  the  Lord  chose  to be  born  as Sri  Krishna
through DEVAKI, and chose some of the azwars to be appearing, then
are they not special ?  can a baddha  jivatma  appear  suddenly in
the material world just like that ?

Can someone  please  quote as to how many baddha  jivatmas  simply
appeared in this  material  world so far than being born through a
normal  process  ?  These  questions  are asked for one's  self to
learn and not to challenge.

>      So we should hold fast to His Feet and
>       snap the chain of Bondage.

This is exactly  charaNAgathi the "upAyam" or means being referred
as the final deed (refered here as "snap the bondage" as one's own
action) for humans for obataining  salvation or mOksham.
I feel that the  readers  would  understand  more and I would have
felt more  relieved  if this post  ended with the  conclusion  for
which the premises were drawn.  i.e., knowledge on shAstram and as
to how an ordinary soul can live a sAstric life and understand the
purpose of life, all in one explained in AzwAr pAsurams  which are
themselves  the  shastrams  or vedams; such that a common folk and
understand and live upto.

bAgawatha kaimkarya roopam
Sampath Rengi