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Re: kamba rAmAyanam

From: VLN (
Date: Mon Nov 18 2002 - 19:38:39 PST

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha
Dear Sri Padmanabhan,
What Sri Malon Kidambi said was absolutely right. Rudra is one of the
foremost devotees of Sriman Naarayana. Which means Rudra worships Lord
Sriman Narayana. My guess is that you have overlooked his statements. He
also says that the anya devatas are highly respected, but he never said that
they are worshipped. These two are completely different.

In fact I have another point which cannot be(I guess) denied by any one. If
we worship Shri Ramanujar, Shri Manavala Maamunigal and Shri Desikan then
there is nothing wrong in worshipping Shiva who is also a great Vaishnava.
If one says he just respects the acharyas then he could also respect Shiva.
The Vaishnava point is that the supreme is more prominent or likes to be
addressed himself as Shri Maha Vishnu or Para-Vasudevan or Shriman Narayanan
 We have to stick to only one form and at the same time we should go by
vedas. Since it has been justified by great acharyas that the vedas say that
Shriman Narayana is the right word to describe the paramatma, and the
form(with 4 hands, holding changu, chakkaram etc) is his form we worship
that form. Please do remember that a true vaishnava who realises the
Vichistadvaita philosophy sees god in everyone. The bottom-line is worship
the paramatma. And the form he likes the most is of the Para-Vasudevan, the
place he stays in the form is Shri Vaikuntha and the name he likes the most
is Shriman Narayanan. This has been justified by our acharyas. Anyways, I
don't want to deviate from the subject, because this would lead to lots of
arguments. I agree that Shri Vaishnavites stand point is to worship only
Shriman Narayana and 'Mattrumor deivamunde madhiyila manidangal' is
absolutely true. But, it all depends on the level from which we see or
realize the ultimate. People like our great acharyas can see that i.e they
don't actually distinguish between the different forms of the ultimate. Shri
Ramanujar stood outside the Siva temple only to prove to people that he
sticks to one and only one great form of the lord. He did not disrespect
Siva nor did he say worshipping siva is wrong:) But, us the normal jivatmas
should stick only to one form i.e the Shriman Narayana form and this is
according to the vedas.

Sri Malolan Kidambi has been one of those contributors who is a valuable
Shri Vaishnavite this list has got(of-course you too) and we should try to
keep our comments to minimum level i.e please send these comments to the
individual person instead of the group. Any member of the group who reads
the mail would completely mis-understand where Shri Kidambi is coming from.
All that I request is that please don't over-look. I know overlooking
happens in many of our cases, but by sending the mail just to the mail
originator, we can avoid confusion and wrong impressions about people.
I meant no offense and please accept my apologies in case I've hurt you.
Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan,
Lakshmi Narasimhan
-------Original Message-------
Date: Monday, November 18, 2002 20:59:21
To: bhakthi
Subject: Re: kamba rAmAyanam
DEAr Sri Malolan Kidambi, Respect to anya devatas are subject-specific as
you have mentioned in your post reg.mantra-rAja pada stOtram .
Other Devatas are ,as you say,exalted jivAtmAs.They indeed worship srEman
NArAyaNa when they are in satva GuNa and act as if they are supreme in other
If what you say is correct, then all AzhwAr pAsurams will become totally
wrong. What shall we say then regarding the following few pAsurams and the
corresponding commentaries( sample only)
1. 'maRRumOr deivam vuLadhenRu iruppArOdu vuRRilEAn, vurradhum vun adiyArkku
adimai" thiru mozhi 8-10-3
2.'kalai aRak kaRRa mAndhar, kAnbarO kEtparO thAm' thirumAlai -7
3. 'maRandhum puram thozhA mAndhar' nAnmuGan thiruvandhAdhi-68

We should also keep in mind periAzhwAr thirumozhi pAsurams 'kAsum kaRaiudai
kORaikkum' 4-6of periyAzhwar thirumozhi, where naming of children has been
dealt by periAzhwAr meticulosly.-
Our philosophy and faith itself veers around emberumAn-s supremacy and
dhivya prabhandham is replete with such instances.
thirumazhisai AzhwAr-s relationship with shivA is well known and thirumangai
AzhwAr has clearly mentioned that 'emberumAn undumzhindha echil thEvar'
thiru mozhi 11-7-2.

Hence,for the sake of justifying kamban-s naming his son as ambika-pati, let
us not dilute our principles, which is one of the fundamnetals of our faith.
The vigrahA of other deities in dhivya-dhEsams are related to specific
history of that dhivya-dhEsams. In thirukkurungudi, there is a small temple
for shiva when you enter the temple.We term it as 'pakkam ninnAr' as per
'pakkam niRka ninRa paNBar vOr pOlum' thirumozhi 9-6-1 where Lord-s
is highlighted by giving a place to shivA by his side. srEvaishnavites do
not go in and worship here when they go to nambi sannidhi.
I would also like to recall here the fact that when namperumAL entered shiva
temple due to rain, udayavar did not enter and he told that, it is okay for
the Lord but not for a sreevaishnavite like me.
It is indeed sad to note that we started discussing kamban, kamba rAmAyaNam
and we end up in accepting other deities (overlooking AzhwAr-s pAsurams),
whcih reiterates my view that what is all good for vaishnavic faith should
be accepted and what is not good should be rejected.

vAnamAmalai padmanabhan

----- Original Message -----
From: Malolan Cadambi <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: kamba rAmAyanam

> > On this subject of Sri Kamban, I have a basic doubt. Forgive me if
> > this doubt is improper. Why a prime vaishnava like Sri Kamban
> > should name his son as ambikapati, which is the name of Siva. This
> > sounds illogical.
> (Moderator:  1. Original message truncated; please refer to the bhakti list message index for the original.
   2. I would like to request that we quote authentic AcAryas and their views as far as possible when we discuss issues such as anya-devatA worship, instead of sharing what "we think".  All of us as individuals have our views on these isssues.  If these are based on knowledge of SAstra-s, plese quote the relevant passages.  We can all learn better if we share excerpts from discourses of revered AcArya-s etc.  This is just a general request, and is not necessarily applicable only for this message).

           - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH -
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