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Re: avatAras of rAmAnuja etc.

From: TV Venkatesh/FXSLF/SEC/SANMAR (
Date: Thu Nov 29 2001 - 20:15:30 PST

srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha
srImadh varavara munayE namaha

Sri Srinath Chakravarty wrote :
Sri Venkatesh and others with similar passionate dispositions:
adiyEn thinks it is unwise to get into kalai-specific anubhavams
about who represents the punar-avatAram of udayavar etc.  Just
so you know, SriRangaRamanuja mahAdesikan (kOzhiyAlam swAmi) was
hailed as abhinava rAmAnuja during his time in bhoolokam during
the last century.  Overlapping claims to udayavar's legacy abound,
and before asserting one's feelings so strongly one should stop
to think where the discussion is leading towards.  This is not to
dispute any particular tradition but an attempt to show equal
respect to all without making mutually exclusive claims.  We must
understand that even though there is AchArya paramparai which
attests to certain punar-avathArams, those kalakshepam traditions
are not unformly accepted across SriVaishnavam and therefore we
must approach such controversial subjects with great caution.

Dear Sri Srinath.

I would like to clarify the following on the above posting of yours.

First, a passion will or may lead to athivAda. There is for sure, no
athivAda in this and hence no passion. Also there is a GREAT DIFFERENCE
between hailing one to be Sri rAmAnuja, by virtue of his deeds and the
actual avatAra of Sri rAmAnuja. There is no doubt, the the title of
"abinava rAmAnuja" is conferred upon Sri kOzhiyAlam swAmi, for his
knowledge and contributions towards the sampradhAyam. This cannot be used
to disclaim the fact that swAmy maNavALa mAmuni was punaravathAram of

Secondly, there can be no "kalai-specific" to this. The Thenkalais rever
swAmy dEsikan to a great extent, in as much, not a single upanyAsakar
belonging to this sect will complete a upanyAsam, without quoting from the
Sri sUktis of swAmy dEsikan. The only difference between the kalais were on
some, I repeat some, philosophical issues. The vadakalais, stop to swAmy
dEsikan in the greater guruparamparai while the thenkalais, stop with swAmy
maNavALa mAmuni in the same. The guruparamparai that runs after them is
kalai specific. May be the vadakalais think that even swAmy maNavALa mAmuni
as kalai specific AchAryA. I do not want to comment on this for the fear of
invoking an argument.

As is known to the world, I repeat, swAmy maNavALa mAmuni, was the only
AchArya who had the distinction of being the AchArya of Sriman nArAyaNan
Himself, not even Sri rAmAnuja. If one can claim that Sri rAmAnuja became
the AchArya of Sriman nArAyaNan in Thirukkurungudi, well it is accepted.
But Sriman nArAyaNan gave that pride only to swAmy maNavALa mAmuni by
creating the famous thaniyan "Sri sailEsa dayA pAthram" which is in vogue
in almost all the 108 divya dEsams barring a few.

Henceforth it is clear that equating a "hail" to a "fact" is completely
unwarranted. In the same post by Sri Sadagopan iyengar, he even went to the
extent of saying Sri rAmAnuja took avathAram as Sri nArAyaNa yathIndra
mahAdEsikan, the present Jeeyar swAmy of Sri ahObila maTam. No one can
dispute it for the fact that he is being hailed and this IS the correct
example of kalai-specific anubhavams. Yes, the thenkalais respect the
vadakalais anubhavams and that is why I, in my posting did not take any
exception to this.

Lastly, though I did not give the pramANa slOka, about swAmy maNavALa
mAmuni showing his true form as Sri AdhisEshan, to his AchAryan, Sri
thiruvAimozhip piLLai, it is a fact which cannot be refuted. I request
scholars in the list, who are aware of the slOka to provide the same. Now
my request is, can one such incident be attributed to Sri kOzhiyAlam swAmy
or Sri ahObila maTam jeeyar that they showed their forms as Sri AdhisEshan
to claim that they are punaravathArams of Sri rAmAnuja. PLEASE NOTE, NO
even, have the qualification to take up the names of such great swAmis and
yathis, but I am just asking this question to only differentiate once again

I believe, this note leaves no doubt in anybody's mind about the fact that
swAmy maNavALa mAmuni was THE FINAL AVATARA of Sri AdhisEshan and hence Sri

AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam
adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan,
Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh

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