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RE: Dvaita and Visishtadvaita

From: Rajagapalan, Murli, NCSIO (
Date: Wed May 06 1998 - 14:54:26 PDT

Dear Sri Dinakaran and all bhAgawatas,

PraNAmam.  Adiyen is by no stretch of imagination a shAstrajna.  But here is
adiyen's attempt at your question.

Nowhere does visishtAdwaita claim that there is only one entity in the sense
the question has been posed (bhagawAn vs. bhakta).  Infact, RAmanuja accepts
not two but six dravyas or perceivable objects: Iswara, jeeva, kAla,
prakrti, nithyavibhuti, and dharmabhuta jnana.  All of these dravyas are
REAL, DISTINCT, and ETERNAL, and there is no doubt that there always is a
seeker and the sought (BhagawAn).

Let us take the following two dravyas: Iswara and jeeva.  Iswara is by
nature Satyam, Jnanam, and Anantam.  Satyam means nirupAdhika satta yogi --
i.e., He exists without an upAdhi.  He is Jnanaswaroopam.  He is also
Anantam or vibhu -- He is undivided by time, space, and matter.  The jeeva
on the other hand derives its existence (satyatvam) from the Brahman.  In
other words, it exists because of that Brahman.  It is monadic (aNu), which
is the opposite of vibhu.  Also it is impenetrable and undestroyable.

Only when it comes to the ORGANIC RELATIONSHIP between the various dravyas
does RAmanuja say it is visishtasya advaitam.  What does this mean?  Again,
for purposes of our discussion, we will just take Iswara and jeeva into
consideration and ignore the other four dravyas.  The relationship is that
of a sareeri/sareera -- the soul/the ensouled;  it is that of an
AdhAra/Adheya -- supporter/supported, etc, etc.  In other words, the jeeva
derives its existence from that primal existence -- Brahman.  It is
supported by Him and exists for His sole pleasure and purpose.  The Brahman
alone is the parama Bhokta.

Now, with regard to the first question, here is the reply :-  Why should the
sareeri/sareera relationship conflict with the swAmi/bhrtya relationship or
the sought/seeker relationship, or any other relationship?  All of these
relationships have distinct meanings.  Secondly, the statements "God is
within us" and "God is controlling us from within" do not mean that God
literally exists within the precincts of the jeeva itself.  All it means is
that the jeeva's very existence is due to that Brahman, and He controls
every aspect of its existence as a master, as a supporter, as a soul, etc.
So, the words "within" and "inside" should not be taken to mean what they
mean in our daily life scenarios.

To summarize, the organic relationship of unity (advaita) between Iswara and
all the other dravyas does not in any way conflict the sought/seeker
relationship.  Infact, it strengthens it many fold.  Because, if you the
seeker come to know that you are linked inseparably with the seeker and
exist solely because of Him and for Him, your sought/seeker relationship
attains a different level of perception.  You now realize that the person
you seek is not just some great, knowledgeable, strong person far away in
heaven, but rather somebody whose organic relationship with you is
inseparable, intimate, and existential, and you have NO OTHER choice but to
seek Him.

Hope this clarifies.  Adiyen hopes that a more knowledgeable person provide
a better explanation to the question.

|| SarvAparAdhAn kshamasva ||
|| Sarvam Sri KrishNArpaNamastu ||

Daasan Murali Kadambi

> ----------
> From: 	R. Dinakaran[]
> Sent: 	Wednesday, May 06, 1998 5:57 AM
> To:
> Subject: 	Dvaita and Visishtadvaita
> One of my good friends who is a member of the Cyber Madhava Sangha 
> says he has a simple definition which proves that Dvaita is more 
> `down to earth'. 
> He says that there has to be two entities: Bhagawan and the Bhakta or 
> the Seeker and the Sought. If God is within us, how can we seek him, 
> he asks (in the Dvaita mailing list).
> I was unable to post a proper reply. Can anyone help me out?
> R. Dinakaran
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