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Re: Response to some BHAKTI issues

From: Krishna Kalale (
Date: Thu May 01 1997 - 11:05:59 PDT

At 11:27 AM 4/30/97 -0700, Mani Varadarajan wrote:
>Regarding the content of Krishna's article itself, I believe
>there are several misconceptions about our pUrvAcAryas'
>views of the Alvars as well as the variety of views on the
>nature of self-surrender.  I believe Krishna's views 
>are based on a slightly mistaken understanding of Sri
>Vedanta Desika's works, as well as a misreading of the
>views of Pillai Lokacarya and Manavala MaamunigaL. I will
>address these in a longer article in a day or two.

Mani,  eventhough I agree that I should not  have used capital letters to
make my points, I had some reasons to do so. Let me clarify those issues.

At the very outset, I wish to apologize to Shri Sundarrajan. I did not mean
to offend you at all.  I got carried away by the issue of "Effort Vs.
Grace", particularly because I had discussed this issue for couple of years
with my close friends and the same issue was accidentally initiated in this
group.  As Mani has mistaken, I was not even referring to Vedanta Desika or
Manavala Mamuni or even Visistadvaita for that matter.  The only thing that
caught my interest was the issue " to strive for spiritual progress or
leave it God's grace"- this issue is very fundamental and I have had
disagreements with a number of well known spiritual leaders whom I
sincerely have great regard for even now!!.  I have this disadvantage of
being a close acquaintance of many religious leaders in our sampradaya.
This has given me easy access to them and also at times made me commit
"bhagawatha Apacharam", since I have taken freedom to freely discuss these
issues face to face with them without hiding any of my feelings and
questioning them very seriously.  I have always been humble in my own
style, even though I dont come across that way.  In fact I have seen many
devotees being so humble that they dont even stand up and ask acharyas any
question.  They think that they are not informed enough to ask such
questions. I have always been different. If I cannot ask a question to such
acharyas who else is there who can really put our questions to rest;
moreover, why would I ask lay folk and "laukika" people such questions-
knowing well that I may not be totally convinced by them anyway?

Coming to the issue, since I have had disagreements with several folks
regarding this issue of "Effort Vs. Grace"  (please note I am not talking
about prapatti and its different modes).  This relates to the fundamental
concept of karma in hinduism and not only restricted to visistadvaita
philosophy.  complete exaltation of "Grace" could practically mean
"fatalism" which is against hindu karma theory.  If I have mistaken some
issue, I request the bhagawathas in this group to clarify.  If Grace does
not mean fatalism  what is the definition of grace and what are its limits ?

Asmad Gurubhyo namaha

Sri krishnarparnamastu

Krishna Kalale
619-658-5612 (phone)
619-658-2115 (fax)