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Re: Digest Number 34 - Regarding Tulasi Maharani

From: Jai Simman s/o R. Rangasamy (rjsimman_at_magix.com.sg)
Date: Fri May 12 2000 - 02:58:04 PDT

Hare Krishna.

I would like to refer to His Grace Jagannathan Venkatanathan prabhu's mail
regarding the use of Tulasi in soaps.

You have certainly not made a mistake in explaining that it should NOT be
used.
A Vaishnava is one who sees his worshippable Lord wherever He is manifest.
Likewise with Tulasi devi.
This is not subject to ritual installations and sacred rituals alone. The
Lord is the Lord whether He is installed in his Deity form or whether He is
not installed. It is not that we shall only offer obeisances to the Lord at
Thiruvengadam and disregard Him when He appears on a book cover. Likewise
Tulasi devi's mahima is not dependent on whether she has been properly
nurtured for worship or otherwise. These ceremonies and observances are
important. Admitted. Nevertheless, one who is a sincere devotee does not
make demarcations. We should see the Lord in any condition as the Lord and
His nitya parishada as nitya parishada no matter in what condition they
exist.

For the bhakta, his worshipable Lord is always His worshipable Lord
regardless of the via medium. Likewise, with Tulasi devi.

Otherwise, we are giving more importance to ritualism than to the Lord and
His paraphernalia and their absolute nature.


Your servant,
R. Jai Simman
Singapore

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Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 5:07 PM
Subject: Digest Number 34


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>
> There are 9 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
>       1. nAcciyAr tirumozhi XI - tAm ugakkum 2
>            From: Kalyani Krishnamachari <kkrishnamachari@yahoo.com>
>       2. A doubt
>            From: "T. R. Govindarajan" <tgovindarajan@lucent.com>
>       3. Re: [Vishnu Puranam]
>            From: M.S.HARI (Madabhushi Sarangarajan Hari) <mshari@usa.net>
>       4. Regarding Tulasi Maharani
>            From: "Jai Simman s/o R. Rangasamy" <rjsimman@magix.com.sg>
>       5. response to Venkateswara image
>            From: Sadagopan <sgopan@computer.net>
>       6. Re: Vishnu Puranam
>            From: Martin Gansten <Martin.Gansten@teol.lu.se>
>       7. Re: [Hamam soap contains Thulasi :-(]
>            From: "Jagannathan Venkatanathan"
<j_venkatanathan@mailcity.com>
>       8. SrI UttamUr SwAmi as "ulagam pOtRum uttamar"  by SrI
V.N.SrIrAmadESikAchArya
>            From: Anand Karalapakkam <kgk@md2.vsnl.net.in>
>       9. nature of the soul and its liberation
>            From: "Narasimhan B" <narsiman@hotmail.com>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
>    Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 04:40:43 -0700 (PDT)
>    From: Kalyani Krishnamachari <kkrishnamachari@yahoo.com>
> Subject: nAcciyAr tirumozhi XI - tAm ugakkum 2
>
>
>                           SrI:
>       SrI ANDAL samEta SrI ra'ngamannAr tiruvaDigaLE
> SaraNam
>
>        nAcciyAr tirumozhi XI - tAm ugakkum
>
> pASuram 11.2(eleventh tirumozhi - pAsuram 2  ezhil
> uDaiya ammanaimIr!)
>
> en vaLaigaL kazhalginRanavE
>
>  ezhil uDaiya ammanaimIr! en ara'ngattu in amudar
>    kuzhal azhagar vAi azhagar kaN azhagar koppUzhil
>  ezhu kamalap pUvazhagar emmAnAr ennuDaiya
>    kazhal vaLaiyait tAmum kazhal vaLaiyE AkkinarE
>
> A. Meaning from SrImAn SaDagOpan's tamizh treatise:
>
> "Oh my beautiful mothers! My emperumAn is lying
> beautifully in tiru ara'ngam and is the amRtam
> (insatiable nectar) for me;  His beauty is well known
> - He is known for His dark blue locks of curly hair;
> He has the most beautiful mouth and eyes (pavaLa vAi
> kamalc cem kaN); and is exquisitely beautified by the
> lotus flower that arises from His navel.  He has made
> the bangle which is called a kazhal vaLai (because it
> can be taken out of the hand), into a kazhalum vaLai
> (the bangle that is slipping out of the hand) in my
> case.
>
> B. Additional thoughts from SrI PVP:
>
> In the last pAsuram, gOdai described to those who were
> adorned with AbharaNams, her plight of having lost her
> AbharaNams. In this pAsuram, she is talking to those
> who are blessed with beauty, about her plight of
> having lost her beauty.
>
> ezhil uDaiya ammanaimIr:   Because of their age and
> position of being elders, godai should not normally
> discuss her viraha tApam with them.  If anything, she
> should hide her having lost her beauty because of
> viraha tApam, and instead make it appear to them that
> she has not lost it.  But instead, she is lamenting to
> them explaining that her beauty has been taken away
> (just as SrI rAmapirAn lamented about His pangs of
> separation to lakshmaNan, even though He should have
> hidden His feelings from His brother, who is also
> separated from his wife - rAmAyaNam kishkindA kANDam
> 1-3).
>
> en ara'ngattu in amudar:  SrI PVP enjoys this by
> looking at it as "en amudar", "ara'ngattu amudar", and
> "in amudar".
>
> en amudar:  He is not just the amRtam that is common
> like common salt to all the dEvAs and shared alike by
> them.  He is my own amRtam, special to me alone.
>
> ara'ngattu amudar:  This is not the amudam that is in
> SrI vaikunTham, far removed from all of us;  this is
> the amRtam that is here, near us, in tiru ara'ngam.
>
> in amudar: this is not just the amRtam that gives
> strength to the body; it is the Ananda amRtam that
> strengthens the life source itself.
>
> kuzhal azhagar, vAi azhagar, kaN azhagar, koppUzhil
> ezhu kamalap pUvazhagar:  The beauty of the meaning of
> this string of words stands out if we rearrange the
> sequence as "kaN azhagar, kuzhal azhagar, vAi azhagar,
> koopUzhil ezhu kamalap pUvazhagar".  First, godai
> looks at emperumAn's eyes.  Not being able to
> withstand looking at His eyes directly, (which appear
> to be piercing her like arrows), gOdai turns her eyes
> towards His beautiful wavy hair.  These beautiful
> locks of hair naturally lead her to look at His
> beautiful mouth. Being subdued by the beauty of His
> mouth, her eyes wander to His triuvADit tAmaraigaL;
> and on the way, His beautiful navel with the lotus
> arrests her attention.
>
> How come ANDAL is not describing His svarUpa guNa-s,
> and instead describes the beauty of His tirumeni?
> Being lovelorn, instead of thinking about His svarUpa
> guNams, ANDAL falls in love with His tirumEni azhagu
> now.
>
> Just as one is conquered by His beautiful lotus-like
> eyes -  "jitantE puNDarIkAksha namastE visvabHavana,
> namastEstu hRshIkeSa mahA purusha pUrvaja:" (jitantE 1
>  - "Oh Sen-tAmaraik kaNNA! You conquered my AtmA; it
> is not mine; it is yours"), gOdai is here conquered by
> His beauty even more than His Seshitvam.
>
> emmuDaiya kazhal vaLaiyait tAmum kazhal vaLaiyE
> AkkinarE:  "It is not the fault of ara'ngan that my
> bangles are becoming loose and falling out. I am the
> one at fault; I chose to wear a kazhal vaLai (the
> bangle that can be taken out), but He interpreted it
> to mean that I chose to wear kazhalginRa vaLai (the
> bangles that are meant to slip out or fall out),  and
> so He has made it come true.  So it is not all His
> fault that my bangles are slipping out.  If I had worn
> a kazhalAda vaLai (a bangle that cannot become loose
> and fall out), may be it would have stayed in my
> hand".
>
> C. Additional thoughts from SrI UV:
>
> ezhil uDaiya ammaniamIr:  godai recognizes that there
> are so many people who are beautiful all around, like
> the ammanaimIr around her.  Some people are beautiful
> in some aspects, and others in other aspects.    But
> His beauty is something unique (kuzhal azhagar, vAi
> azhagar, kaN azhagar, koopUzhil ezhu kamalp pU
> azhagar), and is not comparable to anything else that
> is known.  In addition to being beautiful in every
> aspect of His appearance, He is also "in amudar", and
> above all He is her nAthan.  How can she be separated
> from Him and still have her bangles stay in place?
>
> Note that gOdai used the word "Sa'nkham" in the
> previous pAsuram with two  different meanings, and now
> she is  using the word "kazhal vaLai" here with two
> different meanings.
>
> Abbreviations:
> ------------------
> PVP= SrI periyavAccAn piLLai
> PBA= SrI prativAdi bhayankaram aNNangarAcAriyAr
> UV  = SrI uttamUr vIrarAghavAcAriyAr
>
> sarvam SrIman nArAyaNAyeti samarpayAmi.
>
> adiyEn,
> kalyANi kRshNamAcAri
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
>    Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 03:46:19 -0400
>    From: "T. R. Govindarajan" <tgovindarajan@lucent.com>
> Subject: A doubt
>
> Sri:
> Srimate Gopaladesika Mahadesikaya namaha
>
>
> Bhagavathas:
>
> AdiyEn has a doubt. If a srivaishnava after undergoing Prapatti under a
revered
> acharya, commits both bhagavatha apacharam and acharya apacharam. If
prapatti
> frees this person from rebirth, who gets his apacharams? One cannot go to
> Vaikuntham
> with all apacharas or papam. If he cannot be born again (purpose of
prapatti),
> how
> does he nullify his papams before attaining moksham?
>
> How should one lead a life after undergoing prapatti in this material
world?
>
> dAsan
>
> govindarajan.
>
> -------------------------- namO NArAyanA -------------------------
>
>            - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaha -
> Let noble thoughts come to us from every side - Rg Veda
>
> Seyya Thamizh mAlaigaL nAm TheLiya Odhi
> TheLiyAtha MaRai nilangaL TheLikindROmE.
>
> En amudhanai kanda kangaL maRRonRinai kAnAvE.
>
> namAmi nArAyana pAdha pankajam
> karOmi nArAyana pujanam sadhA  |
>
> vadhAmi nArAyana nAma nirmalam
> smarAmi nArAyana thathvam avyayam ||
>
> SARVAM SRIKRISHNARPANAMASTHU
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
>    Date: 10 May 00 20:34:49 MDT
>    From: M.S.HARI (Madabhushi Sarangarajan Hari) <mshari@usa.net>
> Subject: Re: [Vishnu Puranam]
>
> Dear Shree Chandrashekaran Venkataraman,
>
> Vishnu Puranam is regarded as "Purana Ratnam" - The Gem among puranas
> and is the first in the Satvika Purana Category, fully accepted as
> authority as it is in strict accordance with the Sruti (Veda). It is
> in the form of conversation between Sage Shree Parasara Bhagavan and
> Sage Mytreya Rishi. The Vishnu Puranam aims at explaining the
> Tatva (Chit, Achit & Iswara), Hita & Purushaartha and hence the
> Visistaadvaita Shree Vaishnava Philosophy and practice. On the other
> hand Shreemath Bhaagavata Maha Puranam (though explains the
> tatva, hita and purushartha) concentrates more on the Leela (sport)
> of Bhagavan Vishnu as it is written by Vyasa with an aim to focus
> on Bhagavan's leela and kalyana gunas. This is the answer for your
> question. But both puranas talks about these aspects I have mentioned.
>
> Thanks & Regards
> M.S.HARI Raamaanuja Daasan.
> ====================================================================
>
> Chandrashekaran Venkataraman <vchandra@ambernetworks.com> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------------------------------
> > Attachment:
> > MIME Type: multipart/alternative
> > ---------------------------------------------
> Dear members,
>      I would like to know why the prabhAvam of Lord Narasimha and
> hiraNyakasipu vadham are not elaborated in Sri Vishnu Puranam and done so
> only in Srimad Bhagawatam. Please correct me if this impression is wrong.
>
>      Thanks and regards.
>      adiyEn,
>      chandrasekaran.
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
>    Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 18:19:41 +0800
>    From: "Jai Simman s/o R. Rangasamy" <rjsimman@magix.com.sg>
> Subject: Regarding Tulasi Maharani
>
> Hare Krishna to all the Vaishnavas.
>
> Tulasi is tulasi whether she is grown with meticulous intent for the
service
> of the Lord or otherwise.
> As such, the Vaishnava principle is to respect Tulasi devi in whichever
> condition one may find her in and never to use her for cleansing the human
> body in any condition.
>
> Tulasi is a personality in terms of spiritual understanding unlike manjal,
> etc.
>
> Therefore we should decide what is to be used and what is to be avoided,
and
> how they are to be used or avoided as per shastric principles and the
> instructions of our Acharyas, not otherwise. To dwell on mundane logic or
to
> bring as evidence analogies and conjectures produced by the relativistic
and
> imperfect mind to understand something that is achintyam is not I would
feel
> vaishnavic at all.
>
> Ayurvedic medicine may recommend the use of Tulasi but our ultimate
> authority is not Ayur Veda or the Ayur Vedic kaviraj.
> Our ultimate authority is Krishna, the sad-agamas and the Vaishnavas.
> Therefore the vaishnava principle overrides the other here.
>
> For example garlic and onion is recommended to be of good medicinal value
> but vaishnava principle is to avoid them. Medicine is to be taken where we
> are sick, not always as a principle of staple diet. Often, when medicine
is
> taken when one is well, it only makes him or her more sick. So here, more
> than the routine medicinal aspect, the spiritual dimension is taken into
> account. Rajasic and tamasic foodstuffs do not facilitate in our
remembering
> the Lord. Vaishnavas ought to focus on this principle more than anything
> else since it is not the eating of onions and garlic or the use of tulasi
on
> the body that will solve our problems. Only our eternal absorption at the
> Lotus feet of the Lord can do that and our guiding light should be to
> practise any sadachara that facilitates that principle and reject anything
> that does not.
>
> As such Vaishnavic sattvic living is more important than mere rules of
> medicine or well-being.
>
>
> Your servant,
>
> R. Jai Simman
> Singapore
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
>    Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 07:47:38 -0400 (EDT)
>    From: Sadagopan <sgopan@computer.net>
> Subject: response to Venkateswara image
>
> Dear BhakthAs of ThiruvenakatamudayAn:
>
> The attached note from Sri Haresh Balasubramanian of
> Singapore and the author of the home pages for
> the Lord of Thirumalai would be of interest to You all .
> Even after so many visits to Thiruppathi grabhagraham ,
> adiyEn was not sure of the exact height of Moolavar.
> adiyEn welcomes these inputs from Sri Balaji Narasimhan
> and Sri Haresh Balasubramanyan.
>
> By the way , the URL for the jhome pages under
> construction with the blessings of TT DevasthAnam
> is:
> http://Srimannarayana.homepage.com
>
> There are informative articles on the Sri VenkatEsa
> SubprabhAtham , SthOthram , SaraNAgathi
> and Mangalam as well as AzhwAr's Sri Sookthis
> on the Lord of Thirumalai. Please visit these home pages.
>
> Daasan,
> V.Sadagopan
>
> >
> >sri:
> >
> >Dearest Sri Sadagopan :
> >
> >In a complimentary response to the e-mail you sent out on Lord
> Venkateswara, I am presenting here an extract from an early published
monograph:
> >
> >" The Lord is standing on a high lotus pedestal.The height of the Lord
has
> never been recorded,but cannot be less than nine feet from the tip of the
> 'makutam' i.e the crown to the bottom of the lotus pedestal as can be seen
> clearly on Friday when abhishekam is done after removing all the gold
> 'kavachas' etc.ornamenting his figure.The preist performing the worship
> about five feet tall,standing on a stool two and a half feet high was not
> able to perform 'abhishekam' on the Lord's Makuta without assistance from
a
> preist standing behind the idol. Keeping in view this fact and that the
> lotus pedestal on which the Lord stands is itself below the floor in the
> sanctum sanctorum, the Lord's figure  from the tip of the crownto the base
> of the lotus pedestal , must measure betwen nine and ten feet.
> >
> >extracted from   " Sri Venkateswara - The Lord of the Seven Hills" by
> Pidatala Sitapti ,Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan ,Bombay 1968 ( first impression )
P.17
> >
> >Adiyen,
> >
> >Haresh Balasubramaniam
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
>    Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 12:42:17 +0200
>    From: Martin Gansten <Martin.Gansten@teol.lu.se>
> Subject: Re: Vishnu Puranam
>
> >I would like to know why the prabhAvam of Lord Narasimha and
> >hiraNyakasipu vadham are not elaborated in Sri Vishnu Puranam and done so
> >only in Srimad Bhagawatam. Please correct me if this impression is wrong.
>
> The story of Narasimha is indeed elaborated in the VP. You will find it in
> the first amsha, adhyaayas 16-20.
>
> Ramanujadasa,
> Martin Gansten
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
>    Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 20:19:04 +0530
>    From: "Jagannathan Venkatanathan" <j_venkatanathan@mailcity.com>
> Subject: Re: [Hamam soap contains Thulasi :-(]
>
> Thanks to Sri M.S. Hari & Sri Raja Krishnaswamy
> for sharing their views.
>
> I thought about it and it seems like Thulasi, thiruman, yagyopaveetham,
dharbham,
> even archa-vigraham-to-be of perumal etc get
> their sanctity _ONLY AFTER_appropriate abhimantranam/avahanam  etc are
performed as per vedic/agama shastram.
> If that is true, I apologise for suggesting Sri vaishanavas to stop using
Hamam & other similar "ayurvedic" bathing soaps
> that contain thulasi.
>
> Is it just sentiments if vaishnava-s if they happen to notice such
potentially sacred items as above being inapproriately used ?
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> J. Venkatanathan
>
>
>
> Get your FREE Email at http://mailcity.lycos.com
> Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://my.lycos.com
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
>    Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 22:19:29 +0530
>    From: Anand Karalapakkam <kgk@md2.vsnl.net.in>
> Subject: SrI UttamUr SwAmi as "ulagam pOtRum uttamar"  by SrI
V.N.SrIrAmadESikAchArya
>
> SrI:
> SrI PadmAvati SamEta SrInivAsa Para BrahmaNE namaha
>
> SrImad abhinava dESika UttamUr VAtsya VeerarAghavArya -
> mahAdESIkAya namaha
>
> SrI Lakshminrusimha divya pAdukA sEvaka SrIvaN SatakOpa
> SrI nArAyaNa yateendra mahAdESIkAya namaha
>
>  Dear devotees,
>  namO nArAyaNa.
>
>  The following is the translation of an article in tamil by
>  the late (SrI VaikuNThavAsi) great "SrI U.Ve. VangIpuram
>  Navaneetam SrIrAmadESIkAcArya of Oppiliappan sannidhi" which
>  appeared in the souvenir released during the SatAbhishEkam
>  (80th birth anniversary) of SrI UttamUr swAmi on 10th Feb,
>  1977. adiyEn has translated the article alongwith some notes
>  to enjoy certain words and phrases used by the author. Hope
>  that, by the grace of SrIman nArAyaNa, the translation
>  preserves the charm of the original article, to a reasonable
>  extent.
>
>   A Brief Note about the author :
>  ---------------------------------
>   SrI SrIrAmadESikAchArya (1901-1981) was a great AchArya, well
>   known for his utter dedication of his life for the SrI VaishNava
>   Sat sampradAyam. He was a disciple and son of the illustrious
>   SrI U.Ve. Navaneetam KrishnamAchArya of great fame, popularly
>   known as Navaneetam swAmi.
>
>   SrI SrIrAmadESikAchArya followed the footsteps of his father
>   and wrote good commentries for all the Sanskrit stotras and
>   tamil prabandhams of SwAmi DESikan. With great efforts,
>   referring to old manuscripts, he published all the chillarai
>   rahasyAs of SwAmi DESikan, alongwith his excellent footnotes
>   and explanations nicely bringing out the import of difficult
>   words etc. At those times, there were many mis-readings of
>   these texts in an earlier publication and thus, the great
>   task was taken by SrI SrIrAmadESikAchArya to come up with
>   proper readings and he consulted many great vidvAns for the
>   various questions he had. Now, we are greatly benifited
>   by the immense pains taken by that mahAn for publishing the
>   correct readings and that too in an error free manner. Before
>   publishing his commentry on DESika Prabandham alongwith the
>   correct readings, he told the mahAns that he would be liable
>   to be beaten twelve times by a whip  (ie.jAttai in tamil, used
>   for beating horses) for each of the mistake he commits in not
>   recognizing the correct readings. So great was his sincere
>   dedication. The other great contribution by this swAmi is the
>   publication of SwAmi DESikan's SrImad Rahasya Traya SAram with
>   excellent notes, explaining the import of difficult words, the
>   import of the verses quoted etc. He obtained the President Award
>   for contribution/scholarship in Sanskrit (*) during 1975. This
>   swAmi also followed the footsteps of his illustrious AchArya and
>   father SrI Navaneetam swAmi in especially serving Lord Oppiliappan.
>
>  (*) : The first person to obtain this award was SrI UttamUr
>        SwAmi, wayback in 1960.
> ------------------------------
>
>   SrI U.Ve. Navaneetam SrIrAmadESikAchArya on SrI UttamUr SwAmi :
>
>   Ulagam pOtRum Uttamar  (THE "NOBLE/GREAT" HAILED BY THE WORLD)
> ******************************************************************
>
>        There is none in the world of aastikas (Believer in
>  God ; Believer in a sacred tradition) who doesn't know
>  SrImad UttamUr swAmi. This mahAn has all the qualities
>  for being cited as an example of how a SrI VaishNava should
>  be. Our swAmi (ie. UttamUr SwAmi) appeared in the lineage of
>  great vaidikas (follower of vEdas) known for their jn~yAna
>  (knowledge) and excellence in aachAra (*) for several generations.
>  This swAmi is an example of the proverb "Small Physique, Greater
>  Fame". Those who know the glories of this swAmi can infer the
>  worthness of fortune of the parents who have obtained this
>  mahA-purusha as their son. Only those fortunate ones who
>  obtained glories by utilizing swAmi's unparalleled knowledge
>  in sAmAnya SAstras (**) and Ubhaya-vEdAnta (***) can know
>  the greatness of this swAmi as it is.
>
> ---------------------------
>  (*)  aachAra : Conduct ie. Observance of SAstras, esp. the
>       performannce of rites of nitya and naimittika karmas
>       in accordance with VarNAshrama dharma, and following
>       related dharmaSastras pertaining to one's varNa and aashrama.
>
>  (**) sAmAnya SAstrAs : NyAya (Logic), <pUrva> mImAmsa (Enquiry
>                        into karma khAnda) and VyAkaraNa (Sanskrit
>                        Grammar).
>
>  (***) Ubhaya VEdAnta : Twin VEdAnta comprising the knowledge
>                         of Upanishads and the Prabandhams
>                         (literary works) of AzhwArs.
> -----------------------------
>
>       Our UttamUr swAmi shines as the best amongst the
>  gems of mahA-vidvAns (great, well accomplished scholars)
>  glorifying the Sanskrit college at TirivaiyAr, in an unique
>  manner, due to their deep knowledge in the SAstras like tarka
>  (ie. nyAya), vyAkaraNa and mImAmsa. While only being a student
>  at that college, swAmi was helping his colleagues by clarifying
>  their doubts and explaining difficult issues and thus we can
>  say that his discourses have started as being a student
>  itself. We have heard that even the teachers of sAmAnya
>  SAstrAs to  swAmi were amazed by his shining brilliance
>  as a student. The excellent training in nyAya, mImAmsa etc
>  was very helpful for swAmi to immerse and cross the ocean
>  of vEdAnta later. The authorities of the TiruvaiyAr
>  college did not want to suddenly loose the presence of
>  swAmi, who was shining as a great intellectual after
>  having topped their batch, and thus they appointed him as
>  a research scholar in SAstras. They became happy by getting
>  swAmi's (intellectual) contributions during his stay for
>  some years with them.
>
>
>      SwAmi took refuge at the feet of SrImad KOzhiyAlam
>  swAmi, who was shining as (i) an example of the conduct
>  required for sannyAsAshramam, (ii) a treasurehouse of
>  jn~Ana, vairAgya and anushThAna, (iii) one with
>  unparalleled glories in delivering discourses and
>  writing books. SwAmi received the divine glances of
>  SrI KOzhiyAlam swAmi as "aamudalvan ivan" (*) and attained
>  the excessive research oriented knowledge in vEdAnta
>  SAstra also and became foremost amongst the propagators
>  of the darSana (System of Philosophy; here referring to the
>  darSana of Bhagavad RAmAnuja). Our UttamUr swAmi was in the
>  frontline of vidvAns who were the "jn~yAna putrAs"(**)
>  of SrI KOzhiyAlam swAmi and followed suit his aachArya, in
>  being a good aachArya and activities related to it.
>
> ------------------------
>  (*) :  aam mudalvan ivan : See the note at the end of the article.
>
>  (**) : jn~yAna putras : Very dear disciples; Disciples are
>         also sons of an AchArya ; AchArya is also a father
>         for a disciple.
> -----------------------
>
>     Pushkaram, a mahApuNya tIrta (sacred water tank) kshEtram
>  of North India also wanted to witness the greatness of UttamUr
>  swAmi and derive happiness. Thus, it invited swAmi and
>  due to his discourses, produced many vidvAns with
>  exceptional knowledge in vEdAnta SAstra. Hence, it stands
>  with great pride. SwAmi dESikan's son (SrI KumAra VaradAchArya)
>  himself has said that SwAmi dESIkan, whose avatAram was due to
>  the divine will of Lord ThiruvEngadamudayAn, was having tirumala
>  as the sporting place of his youth. When that Lord (SrInivAsa)
>  Himself later came to be known as "abhinAva dESika", our swAmi
>  was made to live under the shadows of His holy feet for many
>  years and by seeing the power of deliverence of discourses
>  obtained by His grace, He got pleased and blessed swAmi
>  as being the "Best AchArya".
>
>
>       The city of Chennai got a rare oppurtunity. The city
>  earned a great name because of swAmi's decision to settle
>  there permanently. The stroke of fortune came the way of
>  many aastikas at chennai. Many aastikAs were fascinated
>  by swAmi's jn~Ana, anushThAna and the ability to teach.
>  They learnt the sampradAya granthams through the
>  traditional kAlakshEbam and has limitless bhakti towards
>  swAmi.
>
>
>       The AchArya parampara of SrI aaNDikkADu swAmi (AchArya
>  of SrI kEtANDipaTTi swAmi), though got an end to the
>  sannyAshramam after SrImad Garudapuram swAmi and SrImad
>  KOzhiyAlam swAmi, our swAmi is the important among those
>  gruhastas (*) who have taken up the responsibility to
>  continue the parampara through their qualities of being
>  an AchArya. We see very well the  aastikas with vivEkam
>  (discriminatory knowledge) who didn't want to depart from
>  the aachArya parampara coming from time immemorial, taking
>  refuge under our swAmi and getting done the things
>  related to aatma (ie.SamASrayanam and Bhara-nyAsam
>  alias Prapatti).
>
> -----------------------
>  (*) : SrI SrIrAmadESikAchArya is one among the gruhasta
>        AchAryas of this parampara. adiyEn will give a small
>        chart on this parampara in the next posting.
> -----------------------
>
>       Elders have decisively stated that eventhough one may
>  possess complete jn~yAnam, anushThAnam and the like, if
>  aatma guNas are absent, those jn~yAnam etc are not actually
>  complete. Our swAmi is a mahAn filled with the aatma guNas
>  like mercy, patience, calmness etc in large excess and we
>  can perceive him as a small-mountain of aatma guNas. SwAmi
>  is so much an embodiment of simplicity that nothing more
>  great can be told than swAmi's sowlabhyam. SwAmi completely
>  forgets his greatness while speaking even with small children,
>  with a very smiling face and sweet words, thereby making
>  others also feel happy.
>
>       In these days, when the doctrines of sampradAyam are
>  being told in a public gathering through upanyAsam, we
>  see that one is able to get the appreciation and praises
>  from the public, only when colloqial dialogues, commedies,
>  explanation on the srungAra rasa ( dealing with the love
>  between man and women), current politics etc are a part
>  of the upanyAsam. But, our swAmi's thiru-uLLam (holy mind/
>  heart) is never for performing such an upanyAsam. SwAmi
>  has inclination only in performing the "upadEsam", rather
>  than such upanyAsam. This gives a great gain for the
>  listeners also.
>
>  What is the wonder in UttamUr swAmi being glorified by one
>  and all, as an unique personality in the world of scholars,
>  when swAmi exists as a mahA-vidvAn, possesing limitless
>  brilliance and the ability to manoeuvre through any SAstra
>  in any manner, according to his own desire (ie. at the
>  pleasure of his mind), all obtained due to the special
>  glance of the mercy of Lord HayagrIva (God of Knowledge) ?
>
>
>      Can one measure and tell the service rendered by
>  UttamUr swAmi to the world of vaidikas / VaishNavas ?
>  The ability to perform upadEsam directly in one's
>  presence (ie.ability to give discourses in traditional
>  manner) and the ability to write books are different.
>  Only a few possess both of these abilities. The possesion
>  of these two abilities in our swAmi is a result of the
>  combined blessings of both the SaraNyan (SrIman nArAyaNa,
>  the refuge of all) and AchArya. Only UttamUr swAmi is
>  comparable to himself, in making those undergoing kAlakshEbam,
>  well understand the doctrines of the sampradAya and make it
>  sink into their hearts through his lucid style, however
>  difficult the concept may be. The ability of the swAmi to
>  write books is also a boon from emperumAn . We can clearly
>  understand swAmi's ability to create books in a commentry-style
>  for samAnya SAstras also, through  his commentries for older
>  texts of nyAya like vaisEshika darSanam (**), kusumAnjali etc.
>  SwAmi's blessings through the special publication of
>  SrIbhAshya alongwith SrutaprakASika, with the addition of
>  innumerous neccessary and extraordinary details by him, will
>  equal that of river Ganga being brought to earth by
>  BhagIratha (***). In this way, many texts of SiddhAnta, esp.
>  the detailed commentries, notes, special notes, tippaNi etc
>  for the works of SwAmi dESIkan are taking avatAra from the
>  sacred hands of UttamUr SwAmi. This is the most blossomed
>  state of special fortune for the followers of SrI VaishNava
>  sampradAya.
>
> -----------------------------
>  (*) : emperumAn : Literally, "My Lord", referring to SrIman
>        nArAyaNa ; Used a lot by AzhwArs and SrI VaishNava
>        AchAryas since this indicates the intimate bond between
>        oneself and the Lord.
>
>  (**): VaiSEshika darSana : The sUtras of KaNAda delineates this
>        philosophy. Later, it got fused into the nyAya system
>        (NyAya sUtras were framed by Gautama). This system of
>        philosophy is thus referred to as "NyAya-VaiSEshika".
>        Today, many use the terminology "NyAya" to refer to this
>        "NyAya-VaiSEshika".
>
>  (***) : In SrImad RAmAyanam, Sage ViSwAmitra says the story to
>          Lord RAma and Lord Lakshmana about the arrival of river
>          ganga to the earth. The sons of King Sagara (IshwAku
>          race) were burnt into ashes by Sage Kapila, due to
>          their disrespect and pride shown unto the great Sage
>          Kapila. King Sagara's grandson amsumAn got informed
>          that only the arrival of river ganga (which was in the
>          upper worlds of dEvas) can purify all the ashes of his
>          grandfather and make them attain swarga. Himself and
>          his son Dileepan couldn't perform such austerities
>          towards Lord Brahma and obtain the boon. It was
>          BhagIrath, the son of Dileepan who finally did severe
>          penance for thousands of years and obtained the boon
>          from Lord Brahma to make ganga flow on earth. Thus,
>          any extraordinary perseverence, patience and austerities
>          undergone by an individual is stated as "BhagIrata's
>          tapas". Also, the outcome of the tapas is the arrival
>          of the very holy Ganga. Thus, the author says that
>          SrI UttamUr SwAmi did great penance of going through
>          the manuscripts for obtaining the right readings etc
>          and writing his own excellent notes and introductions
>          for obtaining the very holy SrutaprakASika, with clean
>          and right readings, and publishing without errors. The
>          SrutaprakASika which was almost in the extinct state due
>          to its non-availibility was made to appear again by SrI
>          UttamUr SwAmi, for the benifit of everyone. All vidvAns
>          say that, without the monumental SrutaprakASika, its
>          impossible to understand the intricasies of SrI BhAshyam.
> ---------------------
>
>
>  ..........SrI  UttamUr swAmi's wonderful commentry to the
>  aruLicchayal, using the knowledge given by emperumAn (Lord)
>  in SiddhAntam and SampradAyam, and giving it to the whole
>  world is a great help rendered by swAmi (to SrI Vaishnavas
>  / whole world). This great kainkaryam of making everyone
>  enjoy the aruLicchayal, filled with "anubhavam" (mysticism)
>  got fully completed in a short span.
>
>
>        Several title of honours / awards are always
>  coming to swAmi, glorifying his multitude special
>  characteristics. If adiyEn enters to describe them,
>  pages will increase. After attaining SwAmi, the value
>  of the awards only increase. AdiyEn does not think that
>  swAmi remembers all the awards that has come to him
>  (ie. conferred upon him). It is necessary to mention one
>  (award). Many years back, there was a resolution in
>  India (as an independent country) to get rid of all the
>  awards that were being conferred during its
>  Pre-Independence era under the British rule and introduce
>  new awards. It was that time (1959) that the Indian
>  government came forward to give an award with yearly
>  honours for lifetime, for scholarship in Sanskrit.
>  Government, by its search, chose our UttamUr swAmi as
>  the appropriate person in TamilnAdu (South India) to
>  receive the award for the very first time. The pride,
>  in inviting swAmi to the capital of India (Delhi) and
>  honouring him the award (along with a certificate) from
>  the hands of the President of India for the very first
>  time (in history), belongs only to (UttamUr) swAmi.
>
>
>      If it has to be written about the service rendered
>  by our UttamUr swAmi to (Bhagavad rAmAnuja) darSanam,
>  it will be a bhAratam (ie. as lengthy as the epic
>  MahAbhArata). But, it has to be told importantly about
>  one wonderful rare work. It is swAmi's wonderful
>  creation called ParamArtha BhUshanam. One mahAn has
>  praised that SarvArtha Siddhi and SatadUshaNi of SwAmi
>  DESikan are the shield and weapon for one entering into
>  the war of debate. Such SatadUshaNi is a treasure,
>  which can't be refuted by anyone. But, many years back
>  (1956), a scholar wrote a refuttal to even SatadUshaNi
>  and named it as SatabhUshaNi. EmperumAn (Lord) made
>  the sankalpam that only abhinava dESika is apt for
>  writting a refuttal and shut the mouth of the critizer,
>  and also to establish the greatness of SwAmi's
>  DESikan's work. The command of many AchAryas and
>  requests from many aastikas made our swAmi to get
>  involved in the great kainkaryam of writting a refuttal
>  work. A divine work named ParamArtha BhUshanam, running
>  more than thousand pages, took avatAra from abhinava
>  dESika. The greatness of SatadUshaNi was restored.
>  Mouth will talk anything. Mind will think anything.
>  Hand will write anything. It is a scholar's good
>  characteristic  to use these three instruments in the
>  right path. Poets convey thanks to manthAra and KaikEyi,
>  for they were only helpful in making Lord RAma live in
>  forest and protect those performing SaraNagati unto Him
>  by also eradicating those who are enimical to SaraNAgatas.
>  In this way, we glorify SatabhUshaNi with thanks, since
>  it was the reason for the outcome of a divine work
>  "ParamArtha BhUshaNam" from the holy hands of abhinava
>  dESika, to establish the greatness of SwAmi dESikan's
>  SatadhUshaNi. (Long) Live SatadUshaNi ; (Long) Live
>  ParamArtha BhUshaNam. SwAmi's introduction prior to the
>  work itself shows with quite a good amount of clarity
>  on the defects of the PUrvapaksha grantha (SatabhUshani)
>  and the clear import of the siddhAnta grantha (SatadhUshaNi).
>
>
>     One can go on writting much more about the greatness
>  of our UttamUr swAmi. Even small minded adiyEn can
>  proceed writing more and more. The emotions regarding
>  SrI (UttamUr) swAmi are arising in excess and are ever
>  overflowing. But, the Souvenir Committee has stipulated
>  restrictions on the length of an article. adiyEn fears
>  that even this small article has exceeded the limits. As an
>  outlet for the pratibhakti and joy in adiyEn's heart, this
>  small service is done by adiyEn and thereby attaining mental
>  satisfaction.
> ------------
>
>   Then, SrIrAmadESIkAchArya swAmi writes about the SatAbhishEkam
>   celebration and praises the committee for having arranged
>   various things for a grand celebration, that would befit the
>   greatness of UttamUr swAmi. The he prays towards the
>   Divyadampati viz. Bhoomi nAcchiar and SrI Oppiliappan, for
>   showering auspicious things unto UttamUr swAmi and the
>   continuation of UttamUr SwAmi's service through writing
>   books, giving discourses etc and more grandly celebrate the
>   centenary celebrations even twenty years hence.
> ----------------
>
>  (*) : aam mudalvan ivan : In TiruvAimozhi(7.9.3), nammAzhwAr
>        uses this phrase. SrI PeriavAcchAn PiLLai interprets
>        that "PerumAL is thinking that nammAzhwAr (ivan) is the
>        foremost (mudalvan) of those who can obtain His Grace
>        to sing pAsurams .....<ivan mudalvan aam>". This phrase
>        is used to signify the special glance of mercy by an
>        AchArya to his most chosen disciple who would then take
>        over his position for the next generation. In yeedu,
>        NampiLLai says that ALavandAr (YAmunAchArya) issued the
>        most merciful glances towards udayavar (Bhagavad RAmAnuja)
>        as "aam mudalvan ivan" <when ALavandAr first saw udayavar
>        alongwith yAdavaprakASa and others, at kAnchi varadarAjan
>        sannidhi>. This implies that Bhagavad RAmAnuja is going
>        to be the establisher of (ViSishtAdvaita) darSanam. SrI
>        UttamUr swAmi adds that, this can also mean as though
>        ALavandAr feels "Yes <aam>! He <ivan> is the original
>        cause of everything <mudalvan>" ie. udayavar Himself as
>        being considered as SrIman nArAyaNa (in His avatAram).
>        There is also another interpretation accepted by
>        pUrvAchAryAs to this phrase in accordance with the context
>        of the pAsuram viz. mudalvan is the one who is jagatkAraNa
>        ie. SrIman nArAyaNa.
> ---------------------------------------
>
>   This article has again brought out the unparalleled glories
>   of SrI UttamUr SwAmi. If even a great AchArya of the past
>   has so much of appreciation and reverence for SrI UttamUr
>   swAmi, it goes without saying about the way we have to
>   perceive the greatness of "abhinava dESika".
>
>   Please go through this quite lengthy posting again to get hold
>   of important points. It will also be very helpful to enrich
>   the understanding and anubhavam of the future postings. Thanks
>   once again for your patient reading.
>
>   adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan,
>   anantapadmanAbhan.
>   krishNArpaNam.
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
>    Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:50:58 PDT
>    From: "Narasimhan B" <narsiman@hotmail.com>
> Subject: nature of the soul and its liberation
>
>
> SrImate Ramanujaya namaH
> Namo Narayanaya,
> Respected Bagawathas,
> adiyen's pranamams.
>
> I have a question from my firend. i hope some of the learned scholars in
the
> forum can help him.
>
> adiyen
> Narasimha dasan
>
> Sri Sita Ramachandra Parabrahmane namah.
>
> My respectful namaskarams to the members of this forum.I've a question
> regarding the validity of a very famous example quoted by the advaitis
> regarding the nature of the soul and its liberation from material
> entanglement. They say that the jiva is like space enclosed in a
> pot(ghatAkAsha) and the the Nirguna Brahman is like the space outside
> pot(MahAkAsha). ie. The Nirguna Brahman becomes conditiond by Maya just
> as a space becomes covered by the pot.Once the pot breaks, there is no
> difference between the space which was covered by the pot and the space
> outside.In the same way when the covering of Maya is unveiled, the jiva
> is non-different than the Nirguna Brahman. The advaitins quote a few
> scriptural references in support of this view.
>
> Srimad Bhagavatam:
>                     ghate bhinne yathAkAsa AkAsah syad yathA purA
>                     evam dehe mritejivo brahma sampadyate punah
> (12.5.5).
>
> Brahma Bindu Upanishad:
>                   ghata samritamAkAsham liyamane ghate yatha
>                   ghato liyate nAkAsham tatvatjivo nabhopamah.
>
> As space enclosed in a jar remains in its own place even when the jar is
> moved to another locality, for it is the jar that is moved and not the
> space, or as a jar enclosing a space may be broken into pieces but the
> space remains the same and is not destroyed, so is the soul like space.
> ( If I remember correctly, there is a similar description is their in
> Amrita Bindu Upanishad.)
>
> Also in the Muktika upanishad, when Lord Rama instructs Hanuman about
> the different types of mukti, he explains that  "videha mukti is that
> type of mukti which is obtained after the destruction of the body just
> as the sky in the pot merges with the rest of the sky".
>
> Sri vedanta desika refutes this argument in TMK by saying that the
> merging of the sky in the pot into the rest of the sky as  per the
> advaitic explanation is not tenable as this will imply the destructuion
> of the jiva itself.But the sruti says that jivas are eternal.I'm able to
> undertsand this .But I'm not clear about the Vaishnava acharya's stand
> in explaining this example.I humbly request the members of this forum to
> give the vaishnava understanding of this illustration.
>
> Trying to be a humble servant,
> L.Harikumar
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>


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