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Re: Origins of the Jiiva

From: Krishna Susarla (
Date: Wed Mar 17 1999 - 00:14:12 PST

Hare Krishna.

>Dear sri Krishna Susarla,
>This is one of the issues in which the book "our original position"
>published by ISCKON has quoted Sri Ramanujacharya and Probably Madhvacharya

This was one of the points I was making in a discussion with an ISKCON
devotee. I read part of OOP and remember it quoting Shrii Bhaashya. This
later struck me as peculiar, because I was under the impression that Shrii
Raamaanuja did not advocate any such thing as a fall from Vaikuntha. I
wanted to point out for certain that Shrii Raamaanuja had been
misunderstood, but since I don't have Shrii Bhaashya myself, I was hoping
someone could supply me with the relevant quotes from it.

>According to all systems of vedanta (except the view held the ISCKON book
>"our original position"), jiva's bondage is eternal ie. beginningless.
>was bound eternally from beginningless time.  theory of "falling from
>vaikunta" is not supported by any system of vedanta.  "anadi mayaya suptaha
>yada jivo prabudhyate" - state ment from "gaudapada karika" which states
>that " when jiva awakens from the eternal beginningless slumbers of
>ignorance or maya" is taken as valid in all other systems of vedanta.

Actually, a similar argument is given in Govinda Bhaashya. Therein, the
commentator states that the Lord is not partial because of the inequality of
suffering and enjoyment among various living entities, because such
inequality is due to their past karma. Then when an objection is mentioned
saying that different karmas at any point imply that the living entities
were created unequally, Baladeva answers that the karma is beginningless.

>In the 13th chapter for the verse - karanam guna sangosya sadasad yoni
>janmasu (bhagavadgita) the issue of eternal previous births is suggested.
>am sure the Ramanuja bhasya gives details here. Further in sribhasya there
>are several passages to this effect.

If someone could supply me with details from both bhaashyas, I would
appreciate it. I have neither with me at this time, although I hope to
acquire both on my trip to India this year.

While we are on the topic, can anyone suggest a good translation of the
Shrii Bhaashya? I am looking for something that has the original Sanskrit
for both the suutras and the commentary, along with English translations of
both. If necessary, I'm willing to get two volumes (i.e. one in English and
the other in Sanskrit) to get this. If anyone can give specific publication
info for such books (title, translator, publisher, year, ISBN, etc) I would
very much appreciate it.

>Currently, due to lack of time, it is difficult for me to go further.  I
>have had discussions with ISCKON members regarding this at length.

It looks like it's my turn to do the same. :-)


-- K