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Re: Hamsa Sandesam& Ishvaku Kula Daivatham

From: Sampath Rengarajan (
Date: Mon Mar 25 1996 - 07:12:57 PST

1.I just wanted to make a note for the interested readers that
The kOthaNda Raamar sannidhi is situated on the banks of this PushkaraNi inside
the temple.
2. There are two vimaanams that are referred to for the temple as such and they
are praNava viMaanam and praNavakrithi vimaaNam.

Dear Sir,
 I learnt already a lot from your post . Especially when you mentioned the name
suyambu jyothi in your note for my two articles on Srirangam. I derived more
from the grace of this suyambu Jyothi on those three paasurmas of Swami Desikan
on PaaNar ! ie more than what has been translated as literal meaning in my post
and more than what they were indirectly meant for. SInce every such Slokam and
paasuram has three such meanings or implications, Depending on the degree of
one's devotion to the Lord and the Authors, one will automatically be put to
discover all the three layers of such meanings. The lirteral first layer is
generally the physical outlet and may look often suiting the "time" of the
delivery of such slOkam and paasurams. The second layer is what is meant for
indirect meaning that is mostly relaised by the soul and the third is generally
the identification of the path to Param embedded deeply in it so that a
realised soul (meaning the one understood the second layer) can easily adapt
it. These are similar to the physical body, soul and param of the human
perception. Though I and many others who contribute to the forum, want to spend
most of the energy in parting valued information to the forum, at times there
seems to be a necessity to clear some of the doubts and while doing so also I
would like to part with some of the informaion that I know. In such an attempt
and referring to the forum, In one of the discussion on the literal
meanings of the paasurams a learned member (he also provided the second layer
of meanings for that paasuram) described that no amount of translation will be
considered sufficient and that one can get the indepth meanings by seeking the
guidance of an achaaryaaL.

It is 100 % true. If one is not ready to seek an already available achaaryaa,
for their own personal reasons,  he or she can assume the Lord HIMself as the
acharyaa and seek HIS guidance,
 which HE will be provide in due course. It is understandable that often
meanings of one time ie the time these literatures were delivered (ie centuries
earlier), may look obsolete for the other time (ie the present time) where
human civil laws that are governing are different. One example is that when
Koorath aazhwaar disobeyed chOlan his eyes were gouged. For chOlan it was the
law in plcae that time for disobeyal of a King and as per the current charter
of rights civil disobeyances are not punished to this extent as what
koorathaazwaar was punished, as freedom of expression in many countries upholds
individual right to express even disobeyal in an non violant manner. If
beheading was a punishment and common practice of execution for committing a
murder at the time of aazwaars then quoting "such a treatment at that time" for
an "equally offensive crime of that time" was justifiable in a literal
translation. Please note that the barbaric act (as per current codes of
punishment) of gouging the eyes took place more or less the same time this
"raamaanuja nooRRanthaahi" was also delivered. (However at that time, the KIng
was partial as he was misguided by his advisors and hence was not worth to be a
King and that this particular event was not justified and was a disgrace.
However for anyother person who had disobeyd the King on some other count, he
would have also been punished by such Kings with such punishment of the olden

	However, our ahcaaryaaLs had advised us that it is not worth to skim
and dwell
on such offensive literal meanings at a different time and instead one must
attempt to look at the core and indepth meanings that were conveyed in such
paasurams. "Core" thaththuvams that are implied in the old "physical or literal
outlet" are valid beyond time and there is no need to attempt to rewrite them.
If possible what we can do is we can invest our material intelligence and
"abilities" and we can attempt to derive the core and indepth meanings also for
such visually unacceptable (for the current or futre time) literal translations
either with the help of an achaaryaaL or inituitively as guided by the LORD
HIMslef, and ask the readers to read such verses with the indepth meanings so
that any geniune literal translation of the current or future time, may not
mislead the seeker. For reasons, though such core meanings are known to our
ahcaaryaaLS and many others, they were not discussed sometimes in an open
forum. However, if one is seeking such indepth knowledge and attachment they
may pray to the achaaryaal or The Lord to provide them such core meanings
intuitively to them atleast.

However, one must prevail their faith that there are three layers of meanings
available for some of the "core" thathtuvams and what we mostly see and discuss
are the outer most layers only. I want to share my own experience that Some of
the upadEsams I had from "...." through
 my mentor from Valmeeki Raamaayanam had had simple "passages" (first it looked
like it had one inner meaning and was later found that there were two such
inner layers of meanings that were available to it) and when I attempted to
realise it with faith, and in a matter of a split second I was able to
understand the innner meanings of those thathtuvams and I was rejoiced with
that. Having known the concept of the inner meanings, I think most of us will
accept that reading the outer most layer of our thaththuvams and charecterising
them in any way (example "outmoded forms") is somewhat a "closed mind (not
close minded)", than many of those (who are not "closed minds", and it may
appear in an electronic forum where words are not spoken, that such sentiments
of eka viswaasam may look to be close minded though these souls had either
excercised the other options already and chose this path or realised
intuitively this path of eka viswaasam) who are trying to provide atleast the
unavailable meanings of many thathtuvams with eka vishawaasam as their only

I think that the existance of three core indepth meanings may also be possible
for some of the verses (which looked offensive for our present time) quoted
literally from the text of our holy literatures by Sri Anbil Ramaswamy and I
may request him to provide such meanings also if he is currently aware of the
same. And that if such meanings are unavailable at this time, Sri Anbil
Ramaswamy may want to consider adding a few lines in his book explaining the
difference in nature of the civil codes and ethos for time of deliverace and
the date, and leave open the possibility of existance of inner meanings and
that one may seek to it with the help of the Lord or Achaaryaals, themselves.

to Dr sadagopan again,
Now, your article on Hamsa Sandesam was more thought provoking. Thanks for an
excellent post.

Sampath Rengi