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Quiz from Kalale
Date: Fri Jul 16 1999 - 08:35:00 PDT

Dear BhaghavatAs:

Adiyen's (a layman's) response to Kalale's quiz. (Incidentally, use of words
like "Adiyen", "layman" etc., makes fellow BhaghavatAs a little more charitable
towards listening to unsophisticated and unscholarly viewpoints like that of

[Krishna Kalale]  The quiz is as follows:

IF God is both the nimitta and upadana karana He is both the pot and the
potter.   He is the created and the created!!  If so He himself becomes
this universe after creation.

a)  If so how is it different from the school of bhaskara "bhedabhedavada"
b) how is it different from the school of Yadavaprakasa which also admits
bhedabhedavada ?
c) what is the difference between advaita and visistadvaita regarding the
"abhinna nimittopadana karanatva"( or the aspect that HE is both the
created and the creator?)

Please note that this is just to create interest in the readers.  THis is
not to show off that adiyen knows the answer.  Adiyen only knows how to ask
questions  stupid or reasonable!
 adiyen Krishna
[Krishna Kalale]

Let me rephrase the question.  If Brahman is the material cause of this universe
if Brahman is "changeless", then how does that Brahman change or brings forth
universe and draws this universe back to Himself.

The answer is - There is no change 'in' Brahaman, but only a change 'of'
This implies that there is no change in the 'Svarupam' or 'inherent nature' of
Brahman which is
charecterized by "satyam, jnyanam and anantham".  However, we find that there is
a change in
what is supported and sustained by Him viz. the universe. His 'Sariram'
transforms itself
into this universe and He enters into it, sustains and supports it and stands
apart from it.
Many examples are given to explain the 'internal-relation' between the universe
and Brahman.

When we say that everything is Brahman it only implies that there is nothing
of Him and that He supports and controls everything.  On the otherhand when we
say that Brahman
stands apart from this universe it implies that Brhaman does not share the
changing and
impermeanent nature of this universe.

Since there is only ONE (EkamEva adviteeyam), Brahman is therefore
upAdanA, nimitta karanam etc.

The above in short is what Adiyen understands as the  VishishtAdavaitic view of
Please feel to correct me if I am wrong.


Vijayaraghava Dasan