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Re: the ultimate sharanagathi and personal beliefs

From: Sampath Rengarajan (
Date: Mon Jul 28 1997 - 10:56:36 PDT

First I think, Sri Raja Krishnamurthy may want to summarise all his
questions and corresponding replies he received so far.  Srivaishnavas
were first demanded for little more tolerance, then openness in their
mind and now are required to be consistant. Is that all or anything
more that pooor sirvaishnavALs have to respond to ?

Sri Mohan sAgar answered Ser Raja's  latest question on consistancy and
why worship Rama Krishna and why not "other forms of Sriman nArAyanA"
for example some of the other sillari dEvathas who are supposed to have
some "kalyAna gunAS" simliar to Lords avathArams. First of all, as
explained by Sri Mohan, Lord's direct avathArams donot incur any karmAs
and they are made as per Lord's own wish to fulfill some cause or the
other. The second or third derivative creations in the form of a
sillarai dEvathA are not replicas of GOD with all the infinite kalyAna

Sri Mohan explains this in a simliar way.

" His appearance in His vibhava or archavathara forms is through His
supreme autonomy, motivated by His Saulabhyam such that He can reveal
His wondrous form to us and Bestow His Grace".

Ie..If HE chooses to do it HE is capable of and can uproot rAvanA from
Srivaikundam itself. HE chose to take this avathAram to deliver a
message for us. Can HE not deliver the message from SriVaikundam itself
one may ask trivially ? HE can.  However we are clouded with mAyA and
it is *conceivable* by us only when these avahArams are taking place
where we live and the messages are provided to suit our acceptable
limit of perception.

If some demigod is equated on par with Lord Sriman NarAyana simply due
to their possessing some kalyAna gunAs and karma bhAvam then each and
every baddha jivAtma that possess some kalyAna gunAs due to their karma
bhAvam and are they worshippable on par with Sriman nArAryanA ? If Rama
and Krishna exihibit only a part of the kalyAna gunAs it does not mean
that they themselves are only "part" of the Sriman nAryana as similar
to other sillarai dEvathAS who may form part of HIS Body. Rama and
Krishna do possess all the infinite kalyAna gunAs of the parabrahmam in
them in FULL.  They choose to exhibit only a few of them that could be
possibly be conceived by us with our limited faculties. It is said by
nArAdha in his sambhAshana that Sri adisEsha couldnot tell or even list
all the infinite kalyAna gunAs of the Lord with all his 1000 heads
(1000 mouths) even after a lapse of 1000 of years of non stop
delivery.  Are we now trying to make up a list of these kalyAna gunAs
so that somehow we can account for these part by part from X and Y
sillarai dEvathAs and badhdha jivAtmas and so on ?  Can Sri Raja or any
one do it ? Can we simply learn about HIM by learning about these parts
of kalyAna gunAs that our human mind can perceive in this boolOgam
which is constantly under sway of mAyA ? Is it a measure of GOD so that
in someway one can understand HIM completely ?  If so can someone do
quantify these kalyAna gunAs ? Are we trying to beam a torch light at
SUN and show the world that this is SUN, by attempting to understand
the Lord through gaining nyAnam (through a "limitted mind which is
ofcourse open and tolerant") (  while being in this boolOgam under
the sway of mAya all the time) on HIS infinite kalyAna gunAs ?

To answer some questions of Sri Mohan:

> Consequently, when visiting a temple, the devotee should only prostrate
> before the Lord

Inside the presmises of the garpa graham of a divya dEsam or in the
perumAl sannithi of ashram with pAdhukais and archA moorthis, One has
to prostrate only to the presiding deity of that temple or Ashramam.
Even if we are in the presence of our achAryALs in the garpa graham of
a divya dEsam, we maynot prostrate to them. In fact they would advise
one to stop doing so if one attempts to prostrate to them and will in
turn ask him or her to prostrate to the Lord who is presiding in that
divya dEsam or in the perumAl sannithi of the ashramam or mutt.  When
Swamis visit to a visitor's place inside the ahsramam or mutt or a
graham or someone's house (where there may be a visitor's place) we can
prostrate to the swamis.  When Swamis perform samAsrayEnam and
baranyAsam we do prsotarte to Swamis at the end  as they act as the
mediators between us and the Lord during these instants and initiate us
with the moola manthrams and assures us of mOksham on behalf of the

and perform archana and other kainkaryas to Perumal and
> Thayar only, taking only darshanam of the adiyArs.
> Is this correct, or am I mistaken on this?
> Daasanu Daasan,
> Mohan
>-- End of excerpt from Mohan Sagar

Thanks to Sri PD who wrote from achAryALs vaakku on the 2nd aspect of prapatti
yoga. There was a discussion on this pAsuram in this group itself 2 years ago
when we discussed the 5 angAs of prapatti. To be more specific Sri Vijay
Ragavan Srinivasan may be able to present the 5 angAs of prapatti yoga in a
nice way so that many of the newcomers in this group can

An year ago I woke up from my sleep and was chanting a particular
pAsuram from thirumangai on Lord Oppiliappan.

It is

maRROr theyvameNNE Nnunnaiyen manaththuvaiththup
peRREn, peRRathuvum piRavaamai yemperumaan,
vaRRaa neeLkadalchoo zhilangaiyi raavaNanaich
cheRRaay, koRRavanE! thiruviN NagaraanE

I and Sri Jagan had a very intuitive discussion on this pAsuram and
shared the inner meanings to each other and learned from each other at
that time. If it is ok with him I can share those discussions with
everyone and it may be useful to some who are interested in ahzWar

Sri BoomiDevi samEtha Sri Oppiliappan thiruvadikaLE charaNam
Sampath Rengarajan