Search:
Bhakti List Archives

RE: gyAtRtva, kaRtRva and bhOktRtva

From the Bhakti List Archives

Sriram Ranganathan • July 31, 2002 


Sri JS,

Please refer to Sri SMS Chary's book titled Fundamentals of VisistAdvaita
VedAntA for a detailed explanation regarding all the questions you have
raised. Here is my understanding, in brief!

# Does the jiva enjoy / possess any freedom to act (freewill)?  Did the lord
mean this when He said in BG 18-63 yathA echchasi thathA kuru do as per
your wish?

Yes, the jIvA does possess the freedom to act. Towards the end of His
discourse/dialogue, Sri Krishna tells Arjuna to do what he (Arjuna) wishes
in accordance with the knowledge provided (by Him) and in keeping with his
qualification - referring to Arjuna's duty as a kshatriya/warrior. The Lord
offers His advice and leaves the decision-making to Arjuna. By this it is
clear that He expects the jIvA/an individual to take the initiative and do
the right thing, given the knowledge/qualification, and therefore the
implicit recognition of jIvA's freedom.

# Does the ability to know, act and experience confer any freewill to the
jiva.? (Sri Ram kumars mail)

The jIvA is bestowed with knowledge and freedom. Without the freedom to use
the knowledge the jIvA would merely be a slave and "initiative" becomes a
moot point.

# If brahman resides in all things (both chetana and achetana) and controls
them , how can there be free will?( BG 15-15)
(avanandri voraNuvum asaiyAthu)

The concept of God being the antaryAmin or the in-dweller of all things -
animate or inanimate - refers to the relationship between the individual
souls and the Supreme Being. The Lord's role as a "Creator-Controller" does
not preclude jIvA's freewill. He is the cause for the jIvAs/and everything
else. The rules are transparent. How and whether the jIvAs want to play it
fair is upto them. For the record, the Lord likes those who play fair and
prefers their company.

[For e.g. if we assume each jIvA as an atom, then freewill and knowledge are
sub-atomic particles like electrons and protons, that impart
"character/behavior" to the atom. And brahman can be imagined as quark(s)
that make-up those sub-atomic particles. So, at the fundamental level,
everything is composed of brahman and verily the same. At the electron and
proton level too it is pretty much the same. But when it comes to the atoms,
an atom of one element is different from an atom of another. An atom of
Hydrogen element is different from an atom of Oxygen! And so are jIvAs. Of
course, no analogy is perfect].

# Sri Krishna Kashyaps mail- Gods problem vs individuals problem who is
responsible for the jivas sorry state of affairs?
If it is due to jiva acting on free will, what does the lord imply in BG
16-19? aham.. aaseerushu yonishu ajasram kshibhaami (the
words have been  interchanged in order to draw the meaning[_1])

The jIvA is responsible. According to the law of karma, we reap what we sow.
Good and bad deeds progressively and recursively place the jIvA in
appropriate environments. Nonetheless, the jIvA at all times has the ability
to choose - to stay and wallow or break-free and soar. While evil acts
affect a jIvA negatively pushing it into deeper morass, it does not deprive
the jIvA of its ability to know or choose right from wrong. Given that
framework, we should use our best judgement / knowledge to live our
daily-life. Going by the concept of prapatti or self-surrender, we (must)
place our trust in God, and do our *chosen* duty, rest assured we will be
delivered. And therefore, we must choose rightly.

# If everything proceeds as per the lords designs, does it not amount to
pre-determination? Then where is the room for free will?

Yes, and No. In the larger context, everything proceeds according to Lord's
plan. He has plans for the good and He has plans for the evil. And so things
take their own course. But it is the individual's actions that determine the
plan he/she gets. The Lord does not *force* a decision. He provides His
advice and support if asked for, stands back and lets us choose. Just like
He did for Arjuna.

>From Sri S.M.S. Chary's book:
If it is the will of the God that something should or should not happen
regardless of our actions then our effort will become futile or no effort is
required on our part. But if it is the will of the God that an effort should
be made to achieve a result then there is a need for human effort. ".yat
yatnenaiva bhavyam tat...yatnatah bhavati" - Swami Desika's Tattva-
muktA-kalApa. At any given point of time, there is no way for us to know
God's plan for us. Hence, we have to take the initiative.

Thanks,
Sriram

-----Original Message-----
From: jasn sn [mailto:jayasartn@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 12:15 AM
To: bhakti-list@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: gyAtRtva, kaRtRva and bhOktRtva



--------------------------------------------------------------
           - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH -
To Post a message, send it to:   bhakti-list@yahoogroups.com
Group Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bhakti-list
Archives: http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/
 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/