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More on Svargam and Naragam

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jasn sn • July 3, 2002 


SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA

Dear Moderator,

your comments..

> svarga and naraka do indeed exist, according to all
>Vedantins
>including Ramanuja. 

In this connection, I would like to make a
differentiation in the nature of heaven and hell as
mentioned in the texts and the nature of heaven and
hell that we the ordinary mortals (brimming with a
number of doubts about the feasibility of the
same)visualise!!
The lord gave me the courage to say this - as has
always happened, he shows me the way when I ask for
it,
I tumbled upon certain verses in BG which I think are
more relevant and self-explanatory. 

They are the verses from Srimad Bhagavad Gita, chapter
9, slokas 20 and 21.

" Tri vidya maam somapaha puthapapa yagyairishtwa
       svargathim prarthyanthe/
  Te punyamaasaadhya surendraloka-mashnanthi 
       divyandavi deva bhogaanu// "           (9-20)

" Te tam bhukthva svarga lokam vishalam
      ksheene punye marthyalokam vishanthi/
  Evam thrayee dharmam anupprapanna
      gadaagadam kaamakaamaa labhante"        (9-21)

In continuation of my previous post, let me say the
following.From the verse 9-20 &21, it comes doubly
clear that
-> svarga praapthi is possible for those who do the
homas as per the tri vidhya - the three vedas and who
drink soma(?). This probably explains why the one who
reaches that land is called the king of Soma (BS
explanation)

-> These jivas enyoy the results of the punya-
 no confusion here because svarga stands for enjoyment
of punya.

-> But what is to be noted here is that the  punya
that arises on account of the Vedic injunction (tri
vidhya) are not the same as those punyas that we
normally understand as to be arising from various
types of good deeds. Because they are the'Pootha
paapa' That is the paapam that are a hindrance to
attaining the svarga lokam have been removed by them.

If on the contrary we assume the implication of pootha
paapa as one who has removed / dissolved *ALL* the
paapa, the lord's next sloka CAN NOT stand vindicated.
That is the jiva will be ridden of all the punya (now
exhausted in svarga)and already he has removed the
paapam (has become a pootha paapa)so he will now have
zero balance!
If so he need not be born again. But the lord says in
the next sloka that he is born again!

That means the paapam  that the soul has successfully
erased must be the ones that would have otherwise
disabled him to go to svargam. Just as how the punya
from tri vidhya is different, distinct and special,
the paapam by the removal of which he becomes a pootha
papa (I think this word is used as a vinaiyaalaNayum
pEyar)is also of distinct nature. 
( I don't know whether I am right in making this
inference. I may stand to be corrected by learned
devotees)

>From the next sloka.
-> svarga lokam is vishaalam. meaning there are
different types of enjoyment at diiferent levels of
magnitude in accordance with the levels of punya.

-> The moment the punyam gets exhausted, the soul is
reborn to the marthya lokam. If we assume the nature
of the punya as 'just' the normal one arising from the
actions of mind, speech and body and not as discussed
just above, once again the question comes here as to
what punyam he will have now in his credit as he will
have only paapams and does this not make him a heena
janmam or qualify him to go to hell?

 But the lord doesn't say so. He says that they are
reborn. According to BS, this soul is born in good
wombs and under good conditions. This means the punya
that accompanies him to the earth must be different
and is intact!


The punyam that accrues on account of doing the homas
as per the three vedic injunctions. (One example
already noted is the Jyothishtomena hoam)helps him to
reach svargam (kaamakaama -desirous of transient joy
-that is why Sri Ramanuja discounted the results of
this homa in "Mimasa refuted" in his bhashya to
Vedanta sutras. -refer my earlier post)

This must be independent of (and in addition to)the
other punya that arises in the normal course of
actions through mind, speech and body.Only then it
makes some meaning to say that the jiva after
exhausting the punya that helped him ascend the
svargam, comes back to undergoo the results of the
residual karma.
It can then be claimed that the need doesn't arise to
go to hell to work out the paapa because, it can be
assumed now, in line with svarga kama karma, that
unless the jiva has done the  most henious kind of
paapam that requires him to undergo the ills of hell,
he need not go to hell!

I think Vedantas talk of going to svargam or narakam
in this context. Other wise I stand by what I wrote in
my previous mail,that
-the souls reach pitru loka in the normal course 
-or be in the company of good souls on account of its
good conduct in the world
- the other side is a blend of harmonious existence of
peacefulness and agrreable-ness.
- it can be the contrary in the case of so-called
hell, for the evil ones (who were evil in tri-kaaran 
in the earth) to be in the company of evil ones with
evil thoughts, 

I once again stand by the notion 
that the karma which arises from prakruthi sambhandam
must/ can be exhausted only in the plane that has
prakruthi sambhandam, i.e., on the earth -

that svarg and narag as such exists simultaneously 
for every one according to the manner in which he has
to exhaust his praarabhda karma.

that (now included in this post)svarg or narag as
explained in the scriptures may not still hold good as
they will be practically  empty now- with the possible
exception of narag.

 It is my wish that I don't want people to be haunted
and daunted by fears of hell. 
For we are seeing  enough of it (hell) in our lives
and those of others. The fear is necessary to make
people behave properly. But in to day's world the
extent of suffering is so huge, so unbearable and so
mind-boggling, that each one learns a lesson from his
own suffering.

Every person who comes to show me his hand, expecting
me to say a good word about his future, makes me say
that the rules for kaliyuga are different. There is no
need to wait for  completing  this birth, to go to
hell or heaven. The results start taking shape then
and  there, immediately. In my experience in reading
over a thousand palms, I can say that the injunction 
for this yuga is, "Murpagal seiyin pirpagal vilayum"
The different kinds of sufferings that I come to know,
the confessions that the sufferers make, the
self-imposed responsibility that I have taken up to
say soothing words to balm the suffering hearts and to
even give false hope where there is none, make me beg
to God, "Enough is enough, let them not suffer more
even after death, in some extraneous abode of hell'

When, I, the ordinary mortal can be so moved by the
pains in other's life, 
won't HE, the kaarunya seelan in HIS SUPREME
compassionate bhava pardon them, spare them of more of
hell.
HE WILL
HE HAS TO...

KOOVIKKOLLUM KAALAM ENNUM KURUGAADO.....

jayasree sarnathan 



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