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Re: Time of Attainment of Moksha.
Date: Sun Jan 21 1996 - 03:25:44 PST

Dear Mani,

You had asked me to clarify what I mean by Moksha and its time of
attainment.  I have based my understanding primarily on Vedanta
Desikar's RTS and His various minor Rahasyas.

                      Sri Gurubhyo Namah:

All statements in scripture are context sensitive and have to be
understood accordingly.  For example Ramanujacharya points out in the
Geetabhashya that in one verse when Sri Krishna uses the word Svarga
He means Vaikuntha in very shortly thereafter He uses the same Svarga
to mean the abode of Indra.

In the same way the word "death" or the term "fall of this body" can
also mean something other than departure of the soul from the
physical body.  Example: When Ashvatthama killed the five sons of the
Pandavas while they were asleep, Arjuna chased after him and brought
him back to the Pandava camp bound by ropes.  Krishna wanted Arjuna
to kill Ashwatthama while Draupadi pleaded that Arjuna should not
make Drona's wife weep like Draupadi was weeping at that time.
Arjuna looked at Krishna who indicated that Arjuna should somehow
satisfy both Krishna who wanted Ashwatthama dead and Draupadi who
wanted him alive.  Arjuna cut off Ashwatthama's shika and the Mani on
Ashwatthama's forehead.  Forcible removal of the Shika was considered
to be equal to death for a brahmana those days.  Coming back to our
context, death need not be simply departure of the soul from the
body.  It can be viewed as departure of the body from the soul.  The
body besides the gross body consisting of the 5 elements also
includes Manas or mind, buddhi or intelligence and Ahamkara or ego.

Sri Vedanta Desikar describes the journey of the soul through various
lokas to Vaikuntha, where the jivatma is received by ushers in
Vaikuntha and is then taken by Narayana under His feet and then the

Sri Vaikuntha is not just one loka a zillion miles from here.  It
will manifest itself to the mukta jivatma wherever Narayana sends it.
Evidence:  The sons of Kubera, Manigriva and Nalakuvera were drunk
and bathing naked with many women in a lake.  Narada passed that way.
 The women rushed to cover themselves but the sons of Kubera were too
drunk to even realize that they were naked.  Narada cursed them to be
born as trees.  They were liberated when the trees were brought
crashing down by baby Krishna after mother Yashoda had tied Him to a
mortar.  After liberation the sons of Kubera did not go to Sri
Vaikuntha but returned to Kubera where they served Narayana by
serving their father.  Taking the jivatman under His feet means
becoming a servant of Narayana.  Purification of Ahamkara means
revealing to the jivatma what it had forgotten from beginningless
time.  That it is the servant of Narayana and it serves Narayana by
serving another jivatma (with a few exceptions like Garuda,
Vishvaksena etc).  Purification of the manas and buddhi means
replacing the mind and intelligence made up of the 3 gunas with a
shuddha sattva mind and intelligence.  There is no rajo or Tamo guna
influencing the physical body of the mukta jivatma.  In a vast
majority of cases, this happens only with the death of the physical
body of a prapanna.  But it does not have to be so if Narayana
decides to give moksha to a jivatma and still has work for that
individual on earth.  Besides this jivatmas may come from Vaikuntha
propagate Bhagavath Dharma and liberate baddha jivatmas.  Such
jivatmas are the kindest incarnations of Bhagavan.  They are
incarnations because they are totally manipulated by Bhagavan for
their purposes.  It is through tnem only and not the Archa form or
Antaryami form that Bhagavan finally gets baddha jivatmas moksha.

Besides Ramanuja says in the Vedartha Sangraha that two types of
jivatmas take part in Bhagavan's leela vibhutis - the baddha jivatmas
and the mukta jivatmas.  This earth is a part of Bhagavan's leela
vibhuti and therefore mukta jivatmas can and do take birth here to
fulfil Bhagawan's purposes.  This is stated by the Bhashyakara

Sri Vedanta Desikar states in the beginning of the RTS "Narayana,
Himself assumes a mortal form out of compassion  and lifts up the
world submerged (in samsara) with sastras as His hand" and so also,
"Our Lord dressed in His yellow raiment came as the guru out of
compassion to impart the teachings of the Veda".  In a subsequent
chapter Sri Vedanta Desikar states that a God will not speak through
a man who is covered with negative qualities.  He also explains how
these qualities are only as a result of the souls contact with a body
made up of the 3 gunas and why we should not worship other deities
because they are also products of Karma.

Based on these I find it inconceivable to consider an Acharya chosen
by Malola Himself (through the previous Acharya) to be a baddha

Mani, while you may be able to dispute my contention that a baddha
jivatma may be able to get moksha without "dying" as we normally
understand it, you cannot dispute that mukta jivatmas take birth to
fulfil Bhagavan's purposes.  To dispute my contention that all 45
Jeers of Sri Ahobila Mutt were Mukta jivatmas, you will need divine
revealation.  All scriptural evidence points to the contrary.