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Sri Raama Jayam

From: Sampath Rengarajan (
Date: Fri Jan 19 1996 - 05:31:14 PST

On Jan 18, 11:44am, () wrote:
> Subject: Re: Rama's treatment of Sita
> > I am afraid this statement is not valid in the context that all the
avathaaram> takes place
> > as per the God's own will including that of PIRATTI's who is an eternal
part o> HIM for "EVER".
> This was in the context of a rationalization of Sita's banishment on the
> of karma. Both Mani and Sempath Rangarajan pointed out that karma would be
> inapplicable to Sita as a periya pirATTI.
> Coming from an advaitic background, this raises an interesting point for me.
> Aren't all jIvas supposed to be eternal parts of Him and for ever, according
> to the SarIra-SArIrin analogy. But the ordinary jIvas are subject to the
> workings of karma.

The entity JiVan in the present form, is created by Brahma. We are Jivans and
are bound by karma untill such time we undertake saraNaagathi. PeriYa piraaTTi
is not created by Brahmaa. She was eternal and ever present in HIM, as Piraati.
Sarira- SArIrin analogy is applicable only to the the Jivan with  the saRiRaa
created Brahmaa. Lord Vishnu takes birth as Ramaa and SRI as Sitaa as per HIS
will and efforts. Brahmaa has no reason to involve in this and Iwould say HE is
not even aware of it until such incarnation takes place.

 How come SrI is not subject to karma?

As per the above statement she is not any classification of JIVAN. She is part
of Param Purusha "ever" in her form.

 If she is a special
> jIva, does she still hold a special position in terms of enjoyment of
> brahmAnandam? I thought that according to viSishTAdvaita, unlike in dvaita,
> there is no Ananda tAratamyam.
> When discussing these kinds of questions, we are constantly shifting back and
> forth between mythology and theology/philosophy. Take for example, the story
> of Siva incurring the sin of brahmahatyA by severing one of Brahma's heads.
> This story is designed to set Siva as superior to Vishnu and Brahma, but
> He does incur karma.

Lord Shiva according to Sri vaishnava position is the "second derivative" of
the "Param  Purushaa" the Lord Naraayanaa who is ever prevading and above the
laws of karma, time etc.
The story  of Lord Shivaa certainly implies that he did contract brahma hathi
dhosham by removing one of the heads of Brahmaa.. I want to also present a
little bit of mythology as presented in Srivaishnvaaa tradition and
literatures. (Literary proof is available through vedic interpretaion and
"4000" for this.)I want you to take back to the "time of zero hour"(ie before
time was even created)  when no one was present and only "achuthan" was present
and everyone else were present in HIM. Lord shivaa was in HIM and was never any
entity at this time. If Lord Shiva is supreme where was he at this time ?

Ahuthan created Brahmaa when he was in yoga nishtai with five heads. It was a
specific creation that later on one of the head would be removed by Shiva in a
feud between shivaa and brahmaa. After the creation of brhmaa, "rudraa" and
other devaas were created out through HIS FACE.     The Lord wanted to teach a
lesson to Both Brahmaa and SHiva who were already covered by HIS MAAYAA (VISHNU
MAYAA, noone is free from this including Shivaa, and that is another reason
that puts Lord NArrayaanaa as the Supreme) started to fight for supremacy among
themselves due to the ignorance created by Vishnu Mayaa. Shivaa could remove
one of his head, but then the kapaalam of brahmaa got struck in his palm and
would not go. Lord Shiva "wandered" around the whole world looking for remedy.
He was told by paarvathi that if he takes "bikshai" from SRI he will be
qualified to continue his "tapas" and then as the next step, he must meditate
on Lord Vishnu to seek relief for this dosham. He did so at "Thiruk
karambanoor", (also known as uththamar koil due to the reference given by
aazhwaar" thirumangai" on HIM in one of the paasuram as "Uththaman"), one of
the 108 DD, and obtained "bikshai" from "SRI" there and hence this temple is
also known as " Bikshaandavan" temple. He later went on to meditate on LORD
VIshnu and sought HIS blessing at "Thiruk Kandiyoor". In thiruka kandiyoor, you
can visit this temple and see the proof.

Aazhwaar in "Thirukkurunthaandakam" says this

"piNdiyaar "maNdaiyEnthi" piRarmanai thirinthuunNNum
uNdiyaan "saapan theerntha" Oruvanoor, ulakamEnththum,
kaNdiyoora rangam kachchi pEr mallai yenRu
maNdinaar kuyallaal maRRai yOrkkuuyyaalaamE (2050)

Again on thirupEr nagar perumal (nearby temple also one of 108 DD), Thirumangai

oonamar thalaiyon REnthi
ulakellaam thiriyu meesan
'eenamar saaapam neekkaay',
enna, oN punalai yeenthaan
thEnamar pozhilkaL soozhntha
seRivayal then thirup pEr
vaanavar thalaivan naamam
vaazhththi, naan uynthavaarE
				(Periya thirumozhi, 9.4)

The perumaal in "thiruka kaNdiyoor" is also known as " hara saaba vimochanap
perumaal". Since shivan is also known as kandeechwaran, later days this was
coined as "thiruk kaNdiyoor" indicating SHivan's penance on VIshnu.
Periyapuraanam and sundara puraaNam cites about the skull being "struck" in
SHivaa's palm. I hope this is enough a proof that this incident is portrayed
"wrongly" in some of the shivaite literatures which simply wants to still prove
the superiority of Shivaa. It was suggested that Lord Shivaa and Brahmaa thus
learned their lesson, and in all possible ways.  Both of them pray in their
 mind on  Lord Vishnu as the supreme Lord. Unfortunately there were many of the
stories were twisted and many of the shivaites don't even know the continuation
and the core aspect of these "mythological incidents", as they hear only one
side of the story.
I am sure you will take my views as a sambaashanaa and not as a "personal"
argument against you or any specific individual .

Is there any official explanation for why SrI should not likewise incur karma?

Sri is Above Karma (she is not a Jivan creted by brhman, for subtle detils I
invite you to go through the discussions we had on Jivan mukthaa et.. al
sometimes back which are available in the archives) as a part of the ever
prevading and Param Purushaa who is the creator of "KARMAA" itself through his

> Vidyasankar
>-- End of excerpt from ()

SRi hara sabba vimochnanap perumaal thiruvadikalE saraNAm
Sri Oppiliappan Sri BoomidEvi thiruvadikalE saraNAM

Sampth Rengi