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Re: saranagathi & karma===question

From: tg_ram (tg_ram_at_yahoo.com)
Date: Sun Jan 20 2002 - 19:12:04 PST

SrImatE nigamAnta-mahaa-dESikaaya nama:
thanjap-para-gatiyait-thandharuLvOn vaazhiyE !
senthamizh thoopuL thiru-venkaTavan vaazhiyE !


Obviously,  "SaraNAgati" in the sense of "high-degree of 
Surrenderedness to SrIman-nArAyaNa" does not immediately cause  the 
physical/gross/material body to disappear nor the sins/merits that 
must be experienced through the gross body.

(I beleive bhagavd-rAmAnuja SAstrically argues in great length 
pointing out the untenability of jIvan-mukta vaada. 
but I don't know the details.)

Our material bodies exist only due to our past puNya-paapa-ruupa-
karma.   Our current material body cannot exist even for a moment 
without puNya-paapa-ruupa-karma .  if your punya-paapa-acount hits 
zero balance, then your gross body will instantly disappear!!
  
Thus for the baddha-jIva-s (ie yet-to-liberated) like us
  existence of gross body =>  karma is still left =>
      uninterupted devotional service _IMPOSSIBLE_ YET.

When prapatti  is expressly requested to SrIman-nArAyaNa for the 
purpose of doing uniterupted service at SrI-vaikuNTham (ie moksham), 
the jIvaatmaa also requests WHEN it wants moksham be granted.

Most people request moksham only after the end of their current life 
and so they automatically accept the fruition of all the past puNya-
paapa-roopa-karma till the current gross body disappears.

It is interesting that SrI kRshNa uses the future tense, "aham tvaa 
sarva-paapEbhyO mokshayishyaami"  in His bhagavad-gIta carama-Sloka.
ie "I _will_ liberate you from all karma"  

But Sankara-nirviSesha-brahma-vaada and the Hare-kRshNa-s believe 
that moksha can happen even for a baddha-jIva right here in this 
world even with a material body.  
But I do not see how that is possible.
However devoted one may be, the functions of the physically filthy 
body (hunger/thirst/sleep) do manifest and do actually prevent one 
from performing uninterupted devotional service.
plus the gross karmic body  is disgusting - full of filth like bile, 
urine, gas etc.    jeevan-mukti concept is thus simply illogical !

Browse the archives "prapatti" for more details.

Here is one link in the archives, for a starter.
   http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/dec99/0012.html

aDiyEn, thoopuL-piLLai-dAsan,
Ramkumar

--- In bhakti-list@y..., "kalaivani retnavellu" 
<kalaivani4krishna@h...> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> radhe krishna!
> namo venkateshaya
> 
> dear bhaagavatas,
> adiyal has a doubt. i've heard that once we do saranaagathi to 
krishna, he 
> takes on all our karma and makes the account a complete zero. then 
again 
> i've also heard that, once we do saranaagathi to kanna, we still 
have to 
> deserve our karma, but it will be reduced greatly due to krishna's 
mercy. 
> but ultimately one will have to deserve one's karma.
> 
> so the question is, which is rite? does kanna get rid of all the 
karma or 
> does he reduce the potency of it? please shed some light on this as 
i'm 
> really confused. :(
> 
> thank u. :)
> 
> lottsa krishna premai
> kalaivani
> radhe shyam
> namo narayana
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
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