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Sri Dileepan's posting..some explanations.

From: Vijay Triplicane (
Date: Mon Dec 02 1996 - 17:32:56 PST

No doubt His grace is the prime cause for salvation, but not begging for it
(mOksham) seems a little, I am sorry to say, haughty to me.  note that the
aazhvaars did not stop with just praising the Lord, but also pleaded for
His thiruvadi mOksham, "adikkeezh amarndhu pugundhEnE" "appOdhaik ippOthE
solli vaiththEn", etc., etc.  So, it seems to me, pleading for it is quite
apt for us.

>From my personal experience I feel not asking for something that has
already occurred in my mind is a sign of pride.  In this context I am
reminded of the Thiruppathi Goindhaa story posted here by Sri Sudarshan
where the bhaktha was not bashful proclaiming for all the world to hear
what he had asked the Lord to give him the previous year.  After all is He
not "koLLak kuraivilan, vENdiRRellaam tharum vaLLal"? 

Thank you, Dileepan

Dear Dileepan,
	I understand your point. But you  should perceive the vyaakyaanams
	based on the context. Without getting into the details of whether
	prapatti is an act or not...let me try to convey something.
	Our srivaishNava sampradhaayam attributes great importance to a
	bhaagavathaa (nammaazhwaars "un adiyaarkku many
	times, is one of many references) So at times when explaining the
	bhaagavatha perumai (greatness) our poorvaachaaryaaLs have crossed
	several conservative limits. (The level of conservatism is
	subjective, though. )

	In many of thirumaNGgai aazhwaar's paasurams, esp in the ones where
	he takes the naayikaa bhaavam (as a lady love),  she (aazhwaar) takes
	a stance and never even consider Him some times.(oodal). And He is the
	one who is so desperate to win his lady's love even though she 
	doesn't even look at him. Looking at
	this from the point of view of explaining the bhaagavatha perumai we
	won't say that thirumaNGgai aazhwaar committed an apachaaram against
	the Lord or something like that. This is purely emotional aspect of
	devotion. Who are we to commit even the apachaaram. Even if it is
	so, I am his small kid, and i didn't salute my father 
	 or whatever- My father being so compassionate and graceful is
	NOT at All going to punish me. He is so passionate towards me and
	considers my acquaintance to be so interesting and joyful (once
	again this is to explain the bhaagavatha perumai) that he is not
	going to punish me. If he does so then it marks a dent to his
	kalyaaNa guNaas (his grace, that he is easy to reach -sulabhan
	etc...) A true bhakthaa is always fearless. He strongly beleives
	that the LORD is there to take care of him. (Like this innocent kid
	having infinite faith in his father)
	(This doesn't mean that a bhaagavathaa can do anything he wants just
	because the Lord is so graceful. There is a thin line here...
	Looking at this from the perumaaL's point of view, He considers
	these as child's pranks and doesn't punish them. From the
	bhaagavathaa's point of view he should not do anything that would
	displease Him even a little bit)

	Another of thirumaNGgai mannan's stories goes like this.
	Aazhwaar goes to a dhivya dhEsam to sing a paasuram on that
	perumaaL, but perumaaL didn't pay attention ( or the curtain was
	closed - or something like that). Aazhwaar grew restless and decided
	to quit without singing the paasuram. Thaayaar realises this and
	sends (drives!) perumaaL behind aazhwaar to get a paasuram from him
	which perumaaL does and meets aazhwaar in another dhivya dhEsam and
	gets one single line in praise of Him in the new DD paasuram. So
	goes the story. This story is not to convey the haughtiness of the
	aazhwaar (which is how it looks superficially) but to explain how
	perumaaL and thaayaar consider the bhaagavathaa to be so important
	and how they long for getting a paasuram in praise of them from his
	beloved bhaagavathaa.
	We must definitely plead Him for mOksham. By nature our soul is a
	slave to HIM.
	I think the sriraNGgam aachaaryaas feel this way: ( I am not very
	good at this intricate things. This is what i think. Probably
	Mohan/Varadhan/Mani could throw some more light on this)

	We should not think that it is because of our
	pleading that he gave us the mOksham. The act of giving the mOksham
	is by HIM. It is not that we do something and *attain* mOksham. It
	is that he *gives* mOksham to us just because he feels immensely
	happy being with his beloved bhakthaa.
	In my effort to translate those portions of amalanaadhipiraan, i
	haven't done a good job of explaining it in great detail along with
	the context. My ignorance and poor knowledge is the prime reason for
	it. If u get a chance to listen to the kaalakshEbam ( the one i
	have) you will definitely be fascinated by the inherent meaning of
	these verses as explained by a learned srivaishNavar. I am sorry if
	i have conveyed something wrong.  I can send u a copy of the tape if
	i can locate the tape that contains this stuff.

Vijay Triplicane