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RE: "The Six religions "

From: Sadagopan (
Date: Sat Aug 07 1999 - 17:34:26 PDT

Dear Sri Ganesh Panchapagesan :

Thanks very much for your note below :

At 02:51 PM 8/6/99 -0400, you wrote:

V.Sadagopan said :
>> Buddhism and Jainism are systems of
>>thought that do not accept the authority of the VedAs and deny
>> the tattvams such as Soul (Jevan ) and God (Isvaran ), 

In response Sri GP wrote :

>I think that though both Buddhism and Jainism do not accept the authority of
>the Vedas, Jainism believes in Soul (AtmA) unlike Buddhism. Like Sankhya,
>they believe that there are multiple Atmans and the Tirthankaras are
>liberated souls, but they strongly reject a creator-God.

The VisidhtAdvaithic doctrines on Jivans differ significantly 
from that of the Jain views :

VisishtAdvaitham : 
(1)Jivan is an eternal spiritual entity and is distinct 
   from Isvaran.
(2)Even in the state of MokshA , it retains its individuality.
(3)They are of Jn~ana svarUpam and are infinite in number
(4) It is monadic in substance (aNu).
(5) It is the agent of action, and the enjoyer of
    the pleasure . It is therefore karthA and BhOktha.

Jain Theory of Jivans:

Although the Jains believe in souls ( Jeevans ) ,
their view conflicts with the VisishtAdvaithin views
of Jeevans and the AchAryAs of VisishtAdhvaitham 
have proven the invalidity of the jain views 
based on Upanishads, VedAntha SuthrAs and Bhagavdh GitA .

The first objection is about the Jain's view that 
JivA is the size of the body , which it occupies .
This is against the aNu size of Jivans recognized
by VisishtAdvaithins.The Jains' view of sthulA aspect of 
the Jeevan as opposed to the atomic character is 
fraught with grave errors in Swami Desikan's view .

Jains argue that the Jivan is in all parts of the body .
The experience of pain in the arm and happiness in the head 
are arguments advanced by Jains that Jivan is the  size of 
the body . There are thus fat jeevans , tall jeevans et al
in this Jain view . Imagine the calamity.If the Jivan of
the Jain conception breaks its leg or arm , then the Jivan 
is broken up into parts .This is untenable for the Vedanthic view.

We believe in the aNU size in unliberated state and 
Vibhu (all pervasive). Jains believe that the Jeevan
in the Mukthi state attains a body of finite size.  

Further ,for the Jains ,Mukthi is a continous upward 
movement of towards the higher region .Thi sleads on to
other problems .
These inaccuracies are based on the erroneous conception 
that the sariram is aathman( Jeevan ).

We also differ with the Jains in the concept of SabdhA ,
Sadhanaa and Mukthi .The treatment of karmA and its
effect on the Jeevans is quite different from the VisishtAdvaithin 
view and have been rejecte soundly by Swami Desikan 
and his purvAchAryAs .

The theerthankara concept is also not accepted by us.
There are 24 prophets in Jianism , who are like boatmen
to ferry us across the river of transmigration . They are 
the projected ones who lead the way to liberation . 
They start form Rishabha Deva and end with VardhamAna MahAVirA ,
coeveal to Goutham Buddha's time .
Those  would be separate discussions.