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Re[2]: Digest Number 122
Date: Thu Aug 24 2000 - 17:02:34 PDT

     Srimathe Narayanaya namaha
     Adiyen tends to differ from the views presented by Smt. Subha. Well it 
     doesn't look like Sri Madhavakkannan was presenting any unpleasant or 
     arrogant views. While Sri Mani's posting touch the inner sentiments, 
     Sri Madhavakkannan's message was considering that other sentiments are 
     implied. Well this is what is adiyEn's understanding from Sri 
     Madhavakkannan's posting.
     To elaborate, Sri Madhavakkannan says that we need not call other 
     demi-gods as appA, but does he say that you should address them 
     arrogantly. No. Even Thirumazhisai AzhwAr when he was approached by 
     Lord Siva himself, regretted the boons, and when insisted upon, he 
     asked for mOksham which Lord Siva said that he cannot give it. Then 
     the reply was a thank you from Thirumazhisai AzhwAr. When further 
     insisted he made a funny request as to atleast allow the thread to 
     enter the back of the needle. As you can see, this is out of 
     irritation only. You want me to ask any boon and when I ask one you 
     are not able to give one. Then why should you boast about your self. 
     Now coming to calling appA, there certainly can be and has to be only 
     one appA. No further elaboration is needed on this.
     Sri NammAzhwAr in this ThiruvAimozhi, 4m patthu, 9m thirvAimozhi, says 
     "..koLLak kuRaivilan vENdiRRellAm tharum kOdhil, en vaLLal maNivaNNan 
     thannaik kavi solla vamminO". This entire 10 pAsurams are sung for the 
     poets to stop singing about other deities and to sing only about 
     Sriman Narayanan. However you can superimpose this onto other 
     philosophical attributes also. As is clear from the above pAsuram, Sri 
     NammAzhwAr says that why should we even sing about others, when our 
     vaLLal maNivaNNan can give whatever we want and He only can give all 
     that we want.
     And I think this is what precisely Sri MadhavakkaNNan had addressed as 
     "WHY ASK SOMEONE when we have the "ACTUAL TRUE GIVER" on our side?". 
     Sri NammAzhwAr further says in his 10m thirumOzhi in the same patthu 
     ".... mArkkandEyanavanai, nakkap pirAnum anRu uyyakkoNdadhu nArAyaNan 
     aruLE". The conferring of chiranjeevithvam to mArkkaNdEyan  by Lord 
     Siva is also only by the grace of Sriman Narayanan.So adiyEn doesn't 
     see any offense or arrogance in the above sentence. Well adiyEn is not 
     trying to be the mouthpiece for Sri MadhavakkaNNan, but only trying to 
     reitrate that whatever he is written is only on the projected lines of 
     our AzhwArs and AchAryAs.
     We do have an incident in Sri Bhattar's life. One day when he was 
     coming back from thirukkAvEri after his bath and nitya anushTAnams, 
     there was a saivite along the bank on the way, who was applying 
     vibhoothi on him. It was windy that day and some vibhoothi fell on Sri 
     Bhattar's thirumEni. Swami came home and did not even enter the house. 
     He called his mother from outside (Swami KoorathAzhwAn had gone to 
     ThirunAdu by then) and told her about the incident and asked her for a 
     prAyaschittam. She said the only prAyaschittam is of taking the 
     SripAdha thIrtham of a man belonging to the 4th VarNam. This shows 
     that in those days our achAryAs were even reluctant to speak to 
     somebody who is not inclined to believe the truth that Sriman 
     Narayanan is the Supreme Lord. 
     But now with our lowkika life and many friends in other sects also, we 
     are forced to go to the temples where the other demi-gods are the main 
     deity. However we can try and void going and when necessitated, go 
     there and be a silent spectator. You need not pray there. But 
     certainly no disrespect is meant as they are all demi-gods and not 
     Lastly, adyEn thinks that giving away the photos to other friends who 
     still believe in the demi gods is not a disrespect to them. On the 
     contrary that is the most respectful thing that one can do to them. 
     What else is the solution. We say we believe only in the Supreme Lord 
     Sriman Narayanan and keep the photos of other demi-gods also with us. 
     This is not really a good practise for a well realised repeat well 
     realised Sri VaishNavite. Now tearing the photo is certainly a 
     disrespect. Instead, giving it to a saivaite for example, is certainly 
     the most respectful way of getting rid of them.
     adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan,
     Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh 

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Digest Number 122 
Author:  <> at JPINET
Date:    00/08/24 ? 2:01

Shri Mani,
Thank you for your well balanced response to Shri Badri's 
questions. It was a pleasure to read.
> No point in calling some demigod as "appA", when we know who 
>the Father is.
Shri Madhavakannan, I beg to differ. Yes, you would not call 
somebody else "appA" but that does NOT mean one should 
purposely disrespect or insult someone else in any way. That is 
not what our culture teaches us as Shri.Mani rightly points 
> WHY ASK SOMEONE when we have the "ACTUAL TRUE GIVER" on our 
There is no NEED to ask but that does not allow us to be 
arrogant about having the giver on our side either. Humility 
and tolerance are always wonderful virtues even when we are in 
the service of the lord.
> We SHOULD NOT GO TO THE temple, where the demi gods are 
>consecrated, along with Sriman Narayanan) and are in 
>abhayahastham. (showing their palms (as if they can
> protect us!).
I take it there is a good reason they are called demi-GODS and 
not demi-HUMANS. That must make them superior to an ordinary 
human being like me in SOME respect even if they are not the 
ultimate paramAtma. That makes them worthy of my respect even 
while I acknowledge the ultimate goal as Sri Krishna and I 
would hesitate very much to take the liberty of taunting them 
with words such as the ones above.
> No need to throw. Give ot to them (who still do not
> believe Vedas in true sense, and) who worship demi gods. Call 
>them- invite them at your home and give as gift. Do not hide 
>in your sannidhi. That is like hiding
> a boy friend's picture after wedding to Sriman Narayanan. 
I am deeply pained to read the above statements and feel that 
this is a great disservice to the lord and his devotees. What 
kind of a friend would "gift" something he regards as "useless" 
personally, to another friend who is also an aspirant of the 
lord? He may have chosen to worship other gods because, as 
Shri.Mani points out,  he is not yet ready for single minded 
devotion - but his aspirations are the same - he is yet to find 
the easiest path, thats all! How very unfair to treat his 
feelings and the gods that the lord says were created by him in 
this manner.  The analogy to adultery is shocking to put it 
Please forgive me if I have offended anybody's sentiments in 
this note.
Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without 
losing your temper or your self-confidence. 
                                              -Robert Frost
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