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Re: Digest Number 122

From: Jai Simman s/o R. Rangasamy (rjsimman_at_magix.com.sg)
Date: Thu Aug 24 2000 - 07:24:20 PDT

Hare Krishna Madhavakkannan Prabhu.

Could you please elaborate more on the Markandeya pastime. Most of the time
this point is not mentioned at all in books ! They only mention the pastime
with Lord Shiva.

Is this the same Markendeya Rishi who had the bhagyam to see the Lord on the
aalilai during pralaya kaalam ?


Your servant,
R. Jai Simman

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To: <bhakti-list@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 4:50 PM
Subject: Digest Number 122


> --------------------------------------------------------------
>            - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH -
> To Post a message, send it to:   bhakti-list@eGroups.com
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are 2 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
>       1. Re: demigod worship- query from Sri Badri
>            From: madhav.vasudevan@sg.abb.com
>       2. Re: worshipping other deities
>            From: Mani Varadarajan <mani@alum.calberkeley.org>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
>    Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:37:28 +0800
>    From: madhav.vasudevan@sg.abb.com
> Subject: Re: demigod worship- query from Sri Badri
>
>
>
> Sri:
> Srimathe Gopaladesika mahadesikaya Namah:
>
> Dear Sri Badri,
>
> You had asked:
>
> Being born as Vaishnavas is it a sin worshipping
> other Gods ,or is it just that we are not required to
> worship other dieties.Is there any harm in worshipping
> them as long as we realize Narayana is supreme.What
> are we supposed to do when we go to temples which have
> many dieties.Should we worship Perumal and
> deliberately avoid other dieties?
>
> ====
>
> You asked a very common query asked by all of us, one time or the
other.This has
> been discussed in great details in the list and can be found in archives.
>
> Being a SrI JayanthI day, on this auspcicious day, let us discuss at this,
> thereby paying our obeisance to the Lord GeethAcharyan Sri KrishNA.- the
> Primordial Chief, The Unparalleled, Unsurpassed Supreme, Sriya: Pathi
Sriman
> Narayanan.
>
> In GitA, Lord says:
>
> O son of Kunti! At the end of the Cosmic cycle, (during praLyam) all (-
repeat
> -ALL)- enter into My nature, and at the beginning of another cycle, by My
free
> will, and potency, I create them again. (I don't remember the actual
slokam)
>
> THIS INCLUDES You, me- and all demi Gods, whom we worship like four faced
> brahmA, Sivan, indran, agni et al. Veda says: sa brahmA; sa siva srEndhra
> sOkshara: parama swaraat. He is BrahmA; Siva; Indran. They are also
Jivans, like
> us and by virtue of their karmAs, have reached that position. They are
posts,
> and jIvans keep changing at that post (like brahmA, Sivan are posts like
General
> Manager, Production manager.. whereas Sriman Narayanan is the Owner- He
does NOT
> change).
>
> Hence, WE ARE ALL HIS CHILDREN. HIS SERVANTS. No point in calling some
demigod
> as "appA", when we know who the Father is.
>
> Now answer for your query:
>
> We are His dAsans- His devotees, it is He and He alone, who is capable of
> granting all that we seek, and pray. (In Gita, He says: whatever the
demigods
> can grant (to the extent of their powers) is also through Me (as the
antharyami
> in them).
>
> WHY ASK SOMEONE when we have the "ACTUAL TRUE GIVER" on our side?
>
> Now- why ask Him a kilo of vegetables, when he is willing to give His
kingdom to
> us? He will naturally feed us, take care of us. Ask Him the Big, Grand
thing,
> and get out of this samsaara saagaram.
>
> We SHOULD NOT GO TO THE temple, where the demi gods are consecrated,
(along with
> Sriman Narayanan) and are in abhayahastham. (showing their palms (as if
they can
> protect us!). Protect from what?- births and deaths.. for ever. It is HE
alone -
> who can do that. Thirumazhisai AzhwAr, when once was aksed by Sivan
(pleased
> with AzhwAr's meditation) as to what he seeks, AzhwAr said "You can not
give
> what I want- it is mOksham- liberation". MarkaNdEya Maharishi, who was
saved by
> Sivan (by the grace of Sriman Narayanan) from Yama dhUthAs, could not get
> freedom from future briths from Sivan.
>
> IF AT ALL,  we HAVE TO GO to the temple, we need to avoid those sannidhis.
>
> We "can" go if the demi gods are in folded hands (paying their obeisance
to Lord
> Sriman Narayanan) and then they become Bhagawathas. We can pay our
obeisance to
> Bhagawathas/devotees of Sriman Narayanan.
>
> THIS IS NOT JUST FOR THOSE WHO HAVE PERFORMED BHARANYASAM (SaraNAgathy) or
> SAMASRAYANAM (pancha samskaram) It is not for Ramanuja's sishyas. Adhi
Sankara,
> Madhavcharya were also VishNu devotees. It is the difference in
interpretations,
> they differed from Ramanuja. Not on the Supreme Lord. All vaidikAs are
vishNu
> bhakthAs. This is the case for all vaishnavas. For all those who belive in
> Vedas- For all those who belive in "Hinduism". If someone has a different
> opinion, either he does not know or he is not willing to know.
>
> You may say- after samasrayanam, or baraNyAsam, I will avoid demigod
worship.-
> not now. It is as if, you can let your daughter have 'n' number of boy
friends-
> (especially when she knows or you, as "the Father" of the daughter, know
the
> ACTUAL GROOM HIMSELF). You may say, " I have some picture in my perumAL
> sannidhi. How can I throw?" No need to throw. Give ot to them (who still
do not
> believe Vedas in true sense, and) who worship demi gods. Call them- invite
them
> at your home and give as gift. Do not hide in your sannidhi. That is like
hiding
> a boy friend's picture after wedding to Sriman Narayanan.
>
> Let us pray at the Lotus Feet of KaNNAN. "maNNum viNNum ellaam uNda num
KANNAN
> kaNNalladhu maRRaiyOr kaNNO?"
>
> Regards
>
> Narayana Narayana
> adiyEn Narayana Dasan Madhavakkannan
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
>    Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:39:12 -0700 (PDT)
>    From: Mani Varadarajan <mani@alum.calberkeley.org>
> Subject: Re: worshipping other deities
>
>
> Badri wrote:
> > 1) Being born as Vaishnavas is it a sin worshipping
> > other Gods ,or is it just that we are not required to
> > worship other dieties.Is there any harm in worshipping
> > them as long as we realize Narayana is supreme.What
> > are we supposed to do when we go to temples which have
> > many dieties.Should we worship Perumal and
> > deliberately avoid other dieties?
>
> Dear Badri,
>
> Let me offer an alternate point of view.
>
> It depends on your state of mind.  If you have absolute
> faith in the purifying grace of Narayana, your mind by
> itself will develop an aversion to worshipping anything
> short of this Ultimate.  If you settle for worshipping
> anything other than the Ultimate, it only demonstrates
> lack of faith and lack of resolve in attaining the
> highest good.  Our acharyas emphatically emphasize that
> we should not settle for any of these lesser goals,
> and that we must wholeheartedly and single-mindedly
> dedicate ourself only to the highest, Narayana.
>
> It is not a "sin" to worship other gods, in that you
> are not a morally bad person for doing so. It is not
> morally wrong like slaughtering a living being or partaking
> in such slaughter's fruits.  It is, however, detrimental
> if you have resolved to focus yourself on the Ultimate,
> because you are falling far short of your goal, and you
> are not being honest with yourself.  Rather than
> recognizing your inherent, true nature as a 'sesha' of
> Narayana, you are being enslaved by other things, whether
> they be sensual pleasures, wealth, or other deities.
> Worship of all these other things are not conducive
> to the highest spiritual good, because there is no
> meeting point between them and your essential nature.
>
> If you choose to worship anything other than the our
> Blissful Beloved Narayana, you must ask yourself why
> you are doing so. If you really do not care for attaining
> the highest good in the most direct manner, go ahead and
> do as you are doing.  But if you are really resolved
> to attain nothing other than Narayana, there is nothing
> that anything or anyone else can give that will satisfy
> you. So, the bottom line is that you must stay focussed.
>
> But even here, it is important to understand that not
> all people are mentally ready to take the plunge into the
> blissful waters of Narayana.  As Nammalvar says,
> "avar avar tamatamadu arivari vagai vagai..." -- people
> worship their gods according to their inclination and
> capacity to grasp the truth.  What's more, such gods
> themselves are not "false" -- "avar avar iraiyavar
> kuRaivilar" -- because even within these gods, our Narayana
> stands within and is the power that bestows whatever benefits
> they may confer.
>
> Many such people are simply not ready to become 'ekAntis',
> i.e., single-minded in their devotion to Narayana. Perhaps
> this is because of their family background or the place they
> live; we cannot say. For many such people, worshipping other
> divinities is a necessary step for their mind to become slowly
> purified, to cross over their mundane desires and realize that
> the essential truth of Narayana.  We should be careful not
> to condemn these people, since their mental outlook is not
> conducive to exclusive worship of Narayana. Let them be,
> for that is currently the appropriate path for them. Their
> worship will slowly purify their mind and eventually it too
> will be directed toward Narayana. Yes, it is slower than
> the direct path, but this is not our worry.
>
> You also ask a more practical question which face many of us.
> If you go to a temple with many deities, I have been taught
> that respect should be given to all, but worship and adoration
> is only to Narayana and his parivAras.  There is nothing wrong
> in avoiding the other sannidhis. But when confronted by the
> other deities installed, we must be respectful. For example, when
> walking down the street, if all of a sudden we come across
> an utsavam of Siva Perumaan, we are to respectfully
> hold our hands together, and let the utsavam pass on our
> right side. By no means should we do anything disrespectful.
>
> Furthermore, we shouldn't apply our rules and our philosophy
> to members of other traditions. The way Advaita has evolved,
> for example, they worship Siva, Vishnu, Ganapati, Parvati, etc.,
> equally. No matter how wrong we think they are, let them be, is
> my opinion. That is the way their acharyas have taught them
> for at least a thousand years. Our only quarrel with them
> should be if they challenge us.
>
> aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan,
> Mani
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>



--------------------------------------------------------------
           - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH -
To Post a message, send it to:   bhakti-list@eGroups.com
Visit http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/ for more information