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From: Chandrasekaran Venkatraman (vchandra_at_ambernetworks.com)
Date: Mon Apr 17 2000 - 05:32:40 PDT
Dear Sri Bharat,
Sorry. The first mail had really long lines. So resending after reformatting.
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Thanks for the response. I have some doubts. Please clarify.
karma and dreams:
I agree that every suffering and comfort that the Atman
experiences in this life are due to its karma vinai. So in that
sense, even the unreasonable experiences through one's dreams
could also be dictated by karma. Afterall the dreams are
dictated by one's waking state experiences.
But how do we explain the haphazard dreams which don't seem
to make any sense at all?) I am sure I am not the only person
experiencing such dreams:) When I contemplate on the contents
of these dreams it more appears to me to be some superfluous
unconsequential mental images owing to weak or lack of
inner-control. We can let this one pass if we don't have much
to discuss about karma and dreams.
God and dreams:
Next one is regarding God being creator of the dreams. I
wholly agree that God is behind everything in this world subtle
and gross equally. But please clarify.
God commands the outcome of one's actions and inactions. But
does He also command what and how one should think and act ?
If the answer to this is Yes, then doesn't it give a sense
of non-ownership on the part of the jIva, of its actions ? This
is what my problem is, I guess. I totally agree that God is the
basis of everything in all states. This is clearly brought out
in the divya nAmA viz., "thri kakubh dhAma" (vishnu
sahasranama) which means "substratum in all three avasthas".
But does He also command the way one should act etc., ?
If the answer is No, then same holds in the case of dreams
too. In an ocean if a boat gets tossed upside down, then to
describe more specifically the cause of the tossing, I tend to
attribute it to the wave and not the ocean, while I completely
agree that the wave is part of ocean and the ocean forms the
basis for the wave. Similarly in the dreams and waking state
thoughts, while the brahman remains as Supreme monitor and
basis for all that happens, the immediate event that happens is
owned by the jIva and hence it incurs the karma by that. But
while it enacts this, if it realises that it's afterall a part
of the brahman and sheds the sense of doership, it avoids
effects of the karmas.
reality of dreams:
I actually gave the example of the burning house in the
context of reality of dreams and not for karmas. But I think
you have quoted that for proving karma.
I request you to answer the following basic questions for me,
so that I can fill the gap in my understanding of the basics of
this discussion on reality.
"what is unreal in this world if at all there is any such thing?";
"Shouldn't an object, to be called "real", be real in the
True sense to one and all and in all states?"
"If I think of a tree and make a mental picture of it, can
that tree be described as real?"
In this regard, I wish to draw similarities between dreams and
thoughts. Sometimes we will notice at the verge of falling
asleep that, dream slowly emerges and evolves and that dream
happens to be centered around the thing that we were thinking
about just before falling asleep. This means that thoughts and
dreams are different manifestations of the same thing in the
two states. So they are similar in their characteristics.
I don't know if we are talking about the same thing. I agree
that the images in the dream are "real" as part of the dream
because we know we dreamt. But as objects they are unreal even
during the dream. Similarly in the thoughts, "tree as a
thought" is real and as a tree-object is unreal. Is this what
you also mean? :) If yes, I think we have come to a conclusion.
I sincerely apologise if the above discussion seems naive
and insignificant and is wasting your time.
Thanks and regards,
adiyEn,
chandrasekaran.
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